Custom Raider

Author Topic: PowrPro  (Read 5950 times)

Sweet Tooth

  • Raider
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 2508
  • Location: Mississippi
  • Referrals: 0
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #75 on: Nov 15, 2012, 07:23:34 AM »
I do have the Power Pro and it dyno'd at 104 hp and 127 torque and as stated because of the older dyno machine it would be at 114 hp and 140 torque on the new machine.  Is that true, I don't know but it was told to me by someone that I fully respect his knowledge.

 :yikes:  Dang . Your bike must pulll like a freaight train and movelike a  rocket.
Some prefer medicine. I prefer my Raider.


MYRDR aka Bill L

  • MSgt USMC Retired - Patriot Guard Rider
  • SEA-ROAR
  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 22680
  • Location: Yuma, AZ
  • Referrals: 3
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #76 on: Nov 15, 2012, 09:12:00 AM »
I do have the Power Pro and it dyno'd at 104 hp and 127 torque and as stated because of the older dyno machine it would be at 114 hp and 140 torque on the new machine.  Is that true, I don't know but it was told to me by someone that I fully respect his knowledge.

 :yikes:  Dang . Your bike must pulll like a freaight train and movelike a  rocket.

Brent Hodge at Tejas said the same thing after he dyno'd my bike, I am thinking he may have gotten that backwards and meant to say that it would pull a freight train...  :o

t84a

  • Real Men Pedal
  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 2920
  • Location: Middletown, MD
  • Referrals: 3
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #77 on: Nov 15, 2012, 09:28:32 AM »
Welcome back, Bill.

MYRDR aka Bill L

  • MSgt USMC Retired - Patriot Guard Rider
  • SEA-ROAR
  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 22680
  • Location: Yuma, AZ
  • Referrals: 3
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #78 on: Nov 15, 2012, 10:24:24 AM »
Welcome back, Bill.

Thanks Bro, good to be back...  ;D

THUNDER

  • Global Moderator
  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Posts: 5376
  • Location: HARDIN, TEXAS
  • Referrals: 11
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #79 on: Nov 15, 2012, 12:48:36 PM »
I will back what Bill said, Brent did use them exact word that it pulled live a Freight Train.
THUNDER
You can watch stuff happen
You can make stuff happen
Or you can say what the hell happened....Quote from ..Capt. Phil...R.I.P.
PATRIOT GUARD RIDER

[img]http://www.roadstarraider.

zakattak

  • To win raider of the year.....
  • DE, MD, Northern VA and South Eastern PA Riders
  • Road Star
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 421
  • Location: Patuxent River, MD
  • Referrals: 0
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #80 on: Nov 15, 2012, 08:13:09 PM »
I don't think the PowerPro's programming has enough adjustability to compinsate for more than a pipe and a BAK engine mod.

what is your reasoning for that thought? not to ruffle feather's i really want/need to know because at this moment i am running differently than anyone here and am either going to have to get a tuner/dyno or a powerpro

Capt_Zoom

  • Raider
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 9391
  • Location: Baton Rouge, LA
  • Referrals: 1
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #81 on: Nov 15, 2012, 09:52:35 PM »
I don't think the PowerPro's programming has enough adjustability to compinsate for more than a pipe and a BAK engine mod.

what is your reasoning for that thought? not to ruffle feather's i really want/need to know because at this moment i am running differently than anyone here and am either going to have to get a tuner/dyno or a powerpro

What's your setup?  If you look back you'll in the thread you'll see why.  It a simple matter of flexibility.  I don't remember off the top of my head but with a PCV you get cells for every 500RPM x each block of throttle positions.  You adjust the fuel, afr, trim via these cells (think excell).  This gives you nearly unlimited flexibility in tuning when you also consider that you can tune for multiple cylinders, and by gear (litterally having a map for each gear).  The power pro doesn't offer any user controlled flexibility Other than idle control on later versions.  Cobra feels they have come up with a perfect formula for any pipe, intake, or cylinder size or ignition timing.  Many of us feel that the likelyhood of them getting the pefect formula is pretty much zero which is why we don't feel it should be willy nilly endorsed for everyone's setup.  We need more dyno proven data to really know if its working correctly. 
Kick Logic To The Curb!

Paladin

  • Roadliner
  • ***
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 909
  • Location: los Angeles, CA
  • Referrals: 0
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #82 on: Nov 15, 2012, 10:06:50 PM »
I don't think the PowerPro's programming has enough adjustability to compinsate for more than a pipe and a BAK engine mod.

what is your reasoning for that thought? not to ruffle feather's i really want/need to know because at this moment i am running differently than anyone here and am either going to have to get a tuner/dyno or a powerpro
At this point, I'd have to say that I stand corrected on my prior post. Bill L is running a PowerPro, on top of a 120" Raider with aftermarket cams, pipes, BAK, and head work. His Dyno numbers are almost identical to what mine were, before I added the supercharger. So, it seems that the PowerPro CAN handle substantial engine modifications. The supercharger aside, Bill L's and my engine are almost identical, with the exception that I'm running bigger valves and a more agressive cam.

The true test will be when Bill L starts riding his bike on a daily basis. As I previously stated, the Dyno is like a laboratory setting. After I had my PC5 mapped on the dyno, I had to tweak it slightly, after riding the bike in stop and go traffic and on the Fwy.
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2012, 10:14:48 PM by Paladin »
Do not fear the night, fear what hunts at night.

budaman

  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 3563
  • Location: Liverpool NY
  • Referrals: 10
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #83 on: Nov 15, 2012, 10:18:21 PM »
I don't think the PowerPro's programming has enough adjustability to compinsate for more than a pipe and a BAK engine mod.

what is your reasoning for that thought? not to ruffle feather's i really want/need to know because at this moment i am running differently than anyone here and am either going to have to get a tuner/dyno or a powerpro
At this point, I'd have to say that I stand corrected on my prior post. Bill L is running a PowerPro, on top of a 120" Raider with aftermarket cams, pipes, BAK, and head work. His Dyno numbers are almost identical to what mine were, before I added the supercharger. So, it seems that the PowerPro CAN handle substantial engine modifications. The supercharger aside, Bill L's and my engine are almost identical, with the exception that I'm running bigger valves and a more agressive cam.

The true test will be when Bill L starts riding his bike on a daily basis. As I previously stated, the Dyno is like a laboratory setting. After I had my PC5 mapped on the dyno, I had to tweak it slightly, after riding the bike in stop and go traffic and on the Fwy.
Thanks Pauldine for chiming in about the power Pro I think we all were getting pretty tired of hearing how limited the pro was when they had know idea what it can do. Beside a good map is only as good as the guy doing the dyno so that leaves a lot of limitataions also.
2010 & 2012 ROM WINNER

MYRDR aka Bill L

  • MSgt USMC Retired - Patriot Guard Rider
  • SEA-ROAR
  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 22680
  • Location: Yuma, AZ
  • Referrals: 3
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #84 on: Nov 15, 2012, 11:58:37 PM »
I don't think the PowerPro's programming has enough adjustability to compinsate for more than a pipe and a BAK engine mod.

what is your reasoning for that thought? not to ruffle feather's i really want/need to know because at this moment i am running differently than anyone here and am either going to have to get a tuner/dyno or a powerpro

What's your setup?  If you look back you'll in the thread you'll see why.  It a simple matter of flexibility.  I don't remember off the top of my head but with a PCV you get cells for every 500RPM x each block of throttle positions.  You adjust the fuel, afr, trim via these cells (think excell).  This gives you nearly unlimited flexibility in tuning when you also consider that you can tune for multiple cylinders, and by gear (litterally having a map for each gear).  The power pro doesn't offer any user controlled flexibility Other than idle control on later versions.  Cobra feels they have come up with a perfect formula for any pipe, intake, or cylinder size or ignition timing.  Many of us feel that the likelyhood of them getting the pefect formula is pretty much zero which is why we don't feel it should be willy nilly endorsed for everyone's setup.  We need more dyno proven data to really know if its working correctly.

Other then the unit not being sealed and the few that have gotten it wet, and I will add that the unit was not in the place that was recommended, what other problems are you aware of?  I don't remember seeing any and the testimonials of those that have and love the unit, and we are talking a very large contingent of configurations, are too many to count.  You keep on hitting on the point that the power pro doesn't offer any user controlled flexibility, could that be because the user doesn't need to control it?  The PCV demands that the user sets it right because it is incapable of doing it on it's own.  I would take a stab at saying that there are far more riders out there that would be totally lost at trying to set up the PCV, me included, then there are those with your expertise with the device.  As far as dyno testing I don't need it to tell me that the Power Pro is doing the job it was designed for and I don't think all the users out there that absolutely love it need it either.  Nobody is drinking any kool-aid out here, we just know what our bikes are telling us, not what Cobra is telling us.  If it didn't work as advertised would it make any sense for so many people to be swearing by it?  I think not...

zakattak

  • To win raider of the year.....
  • DE, MD, Northern VA and South Eastern PA Riders
  • Road Star
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 421
  • Location: Patuxent River, MD
  • Referrals: 0
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #85 on: Nov 16, 2012, 05:36:12 AM »
thank you paladin for your reply there...i was beginning to wonder lol its one thing for people to go back and forth about what it could/can do but i want some either testing of the system and/or some legitamet statements on its capabilities! and i suppose BillL is able to do the everyday grind on his as for testing.

As for the PCV i have one right now,and im in complete understanding of the fuel table and a/f settings and yet when i can cant find a map for my bike because i made my own interpretation of a BAK and i just finished making my own pipes without baffles, i now need a map that doesnt exist yet so my option become: learn how to create my own map,go get it dynod or just buy a powerpro,so you can see where saying it cant handle any more than some pipes worries me.

That being said i think im going to call cobra and try to find some "   " answers on this because if a power pro could handle ANYTHING,there needs to be more than a sales pitch behind it. now if we had one guy in canada and arizona and florida and maybe montana all with completely tricked out raiders with power pros then i'd say thats a pretty solid testament to what this thing is capable of.

Capt_Zoom

  • Raider
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 9391
  • Location: Baton Rouge, LA
  • Referrals: 1
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #86 on: Nov 16, 2012, 07:38:42 AM »
Bill's numbers are very impressive and a good sign that the power pro might work as advertised.  I'm happy for him.  But I still haven't seen any dyno data using the power pro with short pipes.  If that happens I'm happy to recant my concern's about its programming.  Regarding flexibility...the PCV doesn't need to be micromanaged...once you have your map set that's it.  The flexibility comes in when your making the map itself.

Bill, as far as other problems besides the water issue...I found those from searching the power pro's performance on other bikes.  Other forums are showing about a 50/50 hit and miss with the power pro.  Either a bike likes it or it really doesn't.  We have had more consistent results here.

Funny how guys mention the cool-aid when they aren't the one's considering this with an open mind.  I simply don't jump on any bandwagon without researching things first and wanting the whole picture.  The power pro seem to finally be getting closer to having a whole picture.  Its probably just a few dyno runs on a few bikes with short pipes away.

Thanks again Bill for Posting your numbers.
Kick Logic To The Curb!

budaman

  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 3563
  • Location: Liverpool NY
  • Referrals: 10
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #87 on: Nov 16, 2012, 07:51:35 AM »
Bill's numbers are very impressive and a good sign that the power pro might work as advertised.  I'm happy for him.  But I still haven't seen any dyno data using the power pro with short pipes.  If that happens I'm happy to recant my concern's about its programming.  Regarding flexibility...the PCV doesn't need to be micromanaged...once you have your map set that's it.  The flexibility comes in when your making the map itself.

Bill, as far as other problems besides the water issue...I found those from searching the power pro's performance on other bikes.  Other forums are showing about a 50/50 hit and miss with the power pro.  Either a bike likes it or it really doesn't.  We have had more consistent results here.

Funny how guys mention the cool-aid when they aren't the one's considering this with an open mind.  I simply don't jump on any bandwagon without researching things first and wanting the whole picture.  The power pro seem to finally be getting closer to having a whole picture.  Its probably just a few dyno runs on a few bikes with short pipes away.

Thanks again Bill for Posting your numbers.
Capt you keep mentioning short pipes I don't think I would consider yours all that short in fact they are not much shorter then mine. The harder tuning short pipes would be these http://fsdexhausts.com/index.php?page=metric-exhaust-pipes
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2012, 07:53:29 AM by budaman »
2010 & 2012 ROM WINNER

Capt_Zoom

  • Raider
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 9391
  • Location: Baton Rouge, LA
  • Referrals: 1
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #88 on: Nov 16, 2012, 08:06:36 AM »
Bill's numbers are very impressive and a good sign that the power pro might work as advertised.  I'm happy for him.  But I still haven't seen any dyno data using the power pro with short pipes.  If that happens I'm happy to recant my concern's about its programming.  Regarding flexibility...the PCV doesn't need to be micromanaged...once you have your map set that's it.  The flexibility comes in when your making the map itself.

Bill, as far as other problems besides the water issue...I found those from searching the power pro's performance on other bikes.  Other forums are showing about a 50/50 hit and miss with the power pro.  Either a bike likes it or it really doesn't.  We have had more consistent results here.

Funny how guys mention the cool-aid when they aren't the one's considering this with an open mind.  I simply don't jump on any bandwagon without researching things first and wanting the whole picture.  The power pro seem to finally be getting closer to having a whole picture.  Its probably just a few dyno runs on a few bikes with short pipes away.

Thanks again Bill for Posting your numbers.
Capt you keep mentioning short pipes I don't think I would consider yours all that short in fact they are not much shorter then mine. The harder tuning short pipes would be these http://fsdexhausts.com/index.php?page=metric-exhaust-pipes

The shorter they are the harder to tune.  We have guys on the XS650 forum running 6-8" pipes.  Total PITA to tune.

When tuning if you look at the amount of bad cells of say a cobra swept to a LAC or mortons due to air reversion its surprisingly different.  The LAC and mortons will have about twice as many funky cells even though they are only about a foot or so shorter.  It doesn't take much.  Those pipes you posted would probably be my worst nightmare...forget about getting rid of or limiting popping on them.  Cool as heck but PITA to tune.  While the funky cells usually aren't too much problem for me as long as the adjacent cells are decent if you get too many you don't have good adjacent cells anymore...then you start guessing.  I don't like guessing.  ;D

On older bikes we used to cook (ruin) the exhaust valves if we didn't get the tuning right on really short pipes.  I've never done a set as short as the one's you posted....I'd probably be worried I'd cook the exhaust valve.
Kick Logic To The Curb!

Mr. T

  • Administrator
  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 17150
  • Location: Houston, Texas
  • Referrals: 3
    • View Profile
Re: PowrPro
« Reply #89 on: Nov 16, 2012, 08:13:29 AM »
Bill's numbers are very impressive and a good sign that the power pro might work as advertised.  I'm happy for him.  But I still haven't seen any dyno data using the power pro with short pipes.  If that happens I'm happy to recant my concern's about its programming.  Regarding flexibility...the PCV doesn't need to be micromanaged...once you have your map set that's it.  The flexibility comes in when your making the map itself.

Bill, as far as other problems besides the water issue...I found those from searching the power pro's performance on other bikes.  Other forums are showing about a 50/50 hit and miss with the power pro.  Either a bike likes it or it really doesn't.  We have had more consistent results here.

Funny how guys mention the cool-aid when they aren't the one's considering this with an open mind.  I simply don't jump on any bandwagon without researching things first and wanting the whole picture.  The power pro seem to finally be getting closer to having a whole picture.  Its probably just a few dyno runs on a few bikes with short pipes away.

Thanks again Bill for Posting your numbers.
Capt you keep mentioning short pipes I don't think I would consider yours all that short in fact they are not much shorter then mine. The harder tuning short pipes would be these http://fsdexhausts.com/index.php?page=metric-exhaust-pipes


Sorry... I disagree.  I have the LAC's... your rear cylinder pipe goes clear back to your rear axle.  Plus... the front of that pipes goes much farther down.   

Dare to compare:    ;D
http://www.roadstarraider.com/gallery/680-270812173304-12173982.jpeg
http://www.roadstarraider.com/gallery/207-241011164637.jpeg
 
  July 2009

If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat?  ;D

Harley... the art of turning gas into noise without all that pesky horsepower.  ;D