PowrPro

[silverstreak]

all those that want proof and dyno numbers can happily pay me to put my bike back to stock, dyno it then put it all back on then dyno it again for their proof.

until then the butt dyno tells me all i need to know, and the difference from my bike to jkimmels
his with VH2-2 bak pwrpro and mine with just poor man bak, pwrpro and stock pipes...

HOLY SH!T his has stupid retarded power!

need i say more?

[marcelm]

The shorter they are the harder to tune.  We have guys on the XS650 forum running 6-8" pipes.  Total PITA to tune.

When tuning if you look at the amount of bad cells of say a cobra swept to a LAC or mortons due to air reversion its surprisingly different.  The LAC and mortons will have about twice as many funky cells even though they are only about a foot or so shorter.  It doesn't take much.  Those pipes you posted would probably be my worst nightmare...forget about getting rid of or limiting popping on them.  Cool as heck but PITA to tune.  While the funky cells usually aren't too much problem for me as long as the adjacent cells are decent if you get too many you don't have good adjacent cells anymore...then you start guessing.  I don't like guessing. 

On older bikes we used to cook (ruin) the exhaust valves if we didn't get the tuning right on really short pipes.  I've never done a set as short as the one's you posted....I'd probably be worried I'd cook the exhaust valve.

As I have LAC and PowrPro, I would like to fully understand. Can you please confirm :
 1.
> if the PowrPro cannot tune well the LAC pipes, AFR is not the best one and the engine will run hoter than normal. ==> the higher temp. can cause damages to exhaust valves.
>if the above is true, will an oil cooler will help, by reducing the temp. of engine.

2.
if I will make the dyno test and the HP & TQ will have quite big values (due to PowrPro), will this be enough to judge that the AFR is OK and the exhaust valves are safe, engine running in normal temp values ?

Thanks
Marcel

[Capt_Zoom]

The shorter they are the harder to tune.  We have guys on the XS650 forum running 6-8" pipes.  Total PITA to tune.

When tuning if you look at the amount of bad cells of say a cobra swept to a LAC or mortons due to air reversion its surprisingly different.  The LAC and mortons will have about twice as many funky cells even though they are only about a foot or so shorter.  It doesn't take much.  Those pipes you posted would probably be my worst nightmare...forget about getting rid of or limiting popping on them.  Cool as heck but PITA to tune.  While the funky cells usually aren't too much problem for me as long as the adjacent cells are decent if you get too many you don't have good adjacent cells anymore...then you start guessing.  I don't like guessing. 

On older bikes we used to cook (ruin) the exhaust valves if we didn't get the tuning right on really short pipes.  I've never done a set as short as the one's you posted....I'd probably be worried I'd cook the exhaust valve.

As I have LAC and PowrPro, I would like to fully understand. Can you please confirm :
 1.
> if the PowrPro cannot tune well the LAC pipes, AFR is not the best one and the engine will run hoter than normal. ==> the higher temp. can cause damages to exhaust valves.
>if the above is true, will an oil cooler will help, by reducing the temp. of engine.

2.
if I will make the dyno test and the HP & TQ will have quite big values (due to PowrPro), will this be enough to judge that the AFR is OK and the exhaust valves are safe, engine running in normal temp values ?

Thanks
Marcel

Not saying it can't.  All i'm saying that many of us believe it lacks the flexibility to get the most out of the pipe.  Because very few people have provided dyno information we don't know that it can.  That said, yes if your AFR is to high you will run hot and blow the motor.  You second questions is somewhat loaded.  First, because as you lean a motor out they do make more power and torque.  However, once you exceed a certain threshold that leanness gets to be too much and can destroy the motor.  I used to race two and 4 strokes and if you want the most power you want to get as close to that threshold as you can for most power.  Its a fine line because if you exceed it even a little you can blow a motor (which unfortunately, I've done as well).  Conversely, you can run rich and make a good motor last virtually forever.  Go too rich though and you start fouling plugs and loading up the valves with carbon. 

I'm hoping that with more dyno data the power pro proves to work for everything.  Everyone wants more horses.  I'm sitting at 97hp and would like to surpass the 100hp mark myself.  They'd have to fix the other issues (water issue) and maybe add another mix pot before i'd buy one but things are looking better for it.

As far as the LAC pipes...they are short but not extremely short.  As I said above extremely short is basically a foot or so.  The LACs can be tuned nicely but its it easier to tune the longer pipes like the cobra swepts, or vh2-1, cobra drags.  At least with the PCV.

Choose what you want...I'm not trying to sway anyone either way.  Just saying that we need more info and for those that like to tinker it might not be for them.  Motor Tinkerer's typically want more hands on control.

[Wassup77]

The shorter they are the harder to tune.  We have guys on the XS650 forum running 6-8" pipes.  Total PITA to tune.

When tuning if you look at the amount of bad cells of say a cobra swept to a LAC or mortons due to air reversion its surprisingly different.  The LAC and mortons will have about twice as many funky cells even though they are only about a foot or so shorter.  It doesn't take much.  Those pipes you posted would probably be my worst nightmare...forget about getting rid of or limiting popping on them.  Cool as heck but PITA to tune.  While the funky cells usually aren't too much problem for me as long as the adjacent cells are decent if you get too many you don't have good adjacent cells anymore...then you start guessing.  I don't like guessing. 

On older bikes we used to cook (ruin) the exhaust valves if we didn't get the tuning right on really short pipes.  I've never done a set as short as the one's you posted....I'd probably be worried I'd cook the exhaust valve.

As I have LAC and PowrPro, I would like to fully understand. Can you please confirm :
 1.
> if the PowrPro cannot tune well the LAC pipes, AFR is not the best one and the engine will run hoter than normal. ==> the higher temp. can cause damages to exhaust valves.
>if the above is true, will an oil cooler will help, by reducing the temp. of engine.

2.
if I will make the dyno test and the HP & TQ will have quite big values (due to PowrPro), will this be enough to judge that the AFR is OK and the exhaust valves are safe, engine running in normal temp values ?

Thanks
Marcel

Don't panic!  No one has any proof that the power pro can't tune for those pipes, just some on here won't believe it can until they see it on a dyno.  I also think some just really really like there PCV.  Let me ask, are you having any trouble with your bike marcel?  Any excessive popping, or badly blueing pipes?  Have you noticed any extreme heat coming off your engine?  Well if not, I'm not sure I would worry much.  Now if you have a dyno available we would love to see the dyno charts with the power pro and lac pipes!

[Capt_Zoom]

The shorter they are the harder to tune.  We have guys on the XS650 forum running 6-8" pipes.  Total PITA to tune.

When tuning if you look at the amount of bad cells of say a cobra swept to a LAC or mortons due to air reversion its surprisingly different.  The LAC and mortons will have about twice as many funky cells even though they are only about a foot or so shorter.  It doesn't take much.  Those pipes you posted would probably be my worst nightmare...forget about getting rid of or limiting popping on them.  Cool as heck but PITA to tune.  While the funky cells usually aren't too much problem for me as long as the adjacent cells are decent if you get too many you don't have good adjacent cells anymore...then you start guessing.  I don't like guessing. 

On older bikes we used to cook (ruin) the exhaust valves if we didn't get the tuning right on really short pipes.  I've never done a set as short as the one's you posted....I'd probably be worried I'd cook the exhaust valve.

As I have LAC and PowrPro, I would like to fully understand. Can you please confirm :
 1.
> if the PowrPro cannot tune well the LAC pipes, AFR is not the best one and the engine will run hoter than normal. ==> the higher temp. can cause damages to exhaust valves.
>if the above is true, will an oil cooler will help, by reducing the temp. of engine.

2.
if I will make the dyno test and the HP & TQ will have quite big values (due to PowrPro), will this be enough to judge that the AFR is OK and the exhaust valves are safe, engine running in normal temp values ?

Thanks
Marcel

Don't panic!  No one has any proof that the power pro can't tune for those pipes, just some on here won't believe it can until they see it on a dyno.  I also think some just really really like there PCV.  Let me ask, are you having any trouble with your bike marcel?  Any excessive popping, or badly blueing pipes?  Have you noticed any extreme heat coming off your engine?  Well if not, I'm not sure I would worry much.  Now if you have a dyno available we would love to see the dyno charts with the power pro and lac pipes!

+1.  Sorry if I spooked you.  Wasn't my intent.

[Sweet Tooth]

Bout how much is it to get one dynod

[zakattak]

Bout how much is it to get one dynod

depending on where ya go $200-300 in my experience

[silverstreak]

Bout how much is it to get one dynod

depending on where ya go $200-300 in my experience

[t84a]

I bought a PowrPro from Amazon.  It is coming from Indy Superbikes and the guy claims it's a Gen2.  Wish me luck!

[Sweet Tooth]

Best of luck on the Power Pro . Hope it comes in quick with no problems.

[Capt_Zoom]

Bout how much is it to get one dynod

Look for a shop doing a dyno shootout.  Usually around $40.  Offer them an extra $5-10 to take your AFR reading at the same time since they usually don't include that.  A should out should give you two runs usually.  No need to take it in for a full tune since there is nothing for them to adjust with the Powerpro.

Don't forget to take your front fender off if you have the full wrap from low and mean.  The tire clamps will get your fender paint.

[marcelm]

The shorter they are the harder to tune.  We have guys on the XS650 forum running 6-8" pipes.  Total PITA to tune.

When tuning if you look at the amount of bad cells of say a cobra swept to a LAC or mortons due to air reversion its surprisingly different.  The LAC and mortons will have about twice as many funky cells even though they are only about a foot or so shorter.  It doesn't take much.  Those pipes you posted would probably be my worst nightmare...forget about getting rid of or limiting popping on them.  Cool as heck but PITA to tune.  While the funky cells usually aren't too much problem for me as long as the adjacent cells are decent if you get too many you don't have good adjacent cells anymore...then you start guessing.  I don't like guessing. 

On older bikes we used to cook (ruin) the exhaust valves if we didn't get the tuning right on really short pipes.  I've never done a set as short as the one's you posted....I'd probably be worried I'd cook the exhaust valve.

As I have LAC and PowrPro, I would like to fully understand. Can you please confirm :
 1.
> if the PowrPro cannot tune well the LAC pipes, AFR is not the best one and the engine will run hoter than normal. ==> the higher temp. can cause damages to exhaust valves.
>if the above is true, will an oil cooler will help, by reducing the temp. of engine.

2.
if I will make the dyno test and the HP & TQ will have quite big values (due to PowrPro), will this be enough to judge that the AFR is OK and the exhaust valves are safe, engine running in normal temp values ?

Thanks
Marcel

Don't panic!  No one has any proof that the power pro can't tune for those pipes, just some on here won't believe it can until they see it on a dyno.  I also think some just really really like there PCV.  Let me ask, are you having any trouble with your bike marcel?  Any excessive popping, or badly blueing pipes?  Have you noticed any extreme heat coming off your engine?  Well if not, I'm not sure I would worry much.  Now if you have a dyno available we would love to see the dyno charts with the power pro and lac pipes!

+1.  Sorry if I spooked you.  Wasn't my intent.

No problem, it's very goos this topic as soon as we learn, from each member experience. In this way, we can make relevant conclusions.

I do not notice any excessively heat coming from engine, but I have no big experience with air cooled engines, the Raider I have it from one year and before I had only liquid cooled engines.
Regarding blueing of the pipes, I let you to decide, please see attached pictures for my rear LAC pipe, shields removed. I think is more exposed to heat, than the front one.

Regarding popping, I do not understand what exactly means popping. It was anyway in my intension to clarify this therm, so need your help. So, when idle, when accelerating or when riding at constant speed, I have not any abnormal noise coming from the pipes, no backfiring at all and I can hear each cylinder explosion separately, very clear and very nice . But, when riding and suddenly close the throttle, I cannot hear each cylinder separately and there are some babbling, (I can also say farts  ) into my pipes, but I think these are not so excessive. If these are not the popping, please tell me.

Unfortunaly I do not have a dyno chart. There is a dyno tester at 50 km from my town and definately will go there for test and ask also for AFR. But now is winter and need to find a day with more sun ... when available of course I will post it here.

[Capt_Zoom]

Marcelm,
You definitely have bluing but one can't be certain that its due to poor AFR.  Personally, I believe that all pipes are going to blue eventually with a hi performance motor.  That said if it happens very quickly on a low mile bike you could be running hot. 

i haven't had my heat shields off in years so god only knows how mine look now. 

One thing I did a couple years ago was get one of those little RC infared thermometers ($15) and when I was messing with the maps I would take readings after riding and keep them in a notebook.  Can't remember now though what they ranged though since its been so long.

[marcelm]

Marcelm,
You definitely have bluing but one can't be certain that its due to poor AFR.  Personally, I believe that all pipes are going to blue eventually with a hi performance motor.  That said if it happens very quickly on a low mile bike you could be running hot. 

i haven't had my heat shields off in years so god only knows how mine look now. 

One thing I did a couple years ago was get one of those little RC infared thermometers ($15) and when I was messing with the maps I would take readings after riding and keep them in a notebook.  Can't remember now though what they ranged though since its been so long.

just spoked with the guy who is doing the dyno test. I will go to check HP, TQ and AFR ! but have to find a sunny day ...

what AFR value is optimal for Raider ?

[Bill L]

That bluing is normal and it does not take very long at all to get to that point.  I changed my exhaust on my HD with only 1000 miles on the pipes and they looked just like yours do now.  The heat shield was a marvel in design in allowing enough space between the pipe and the shield for the heat to dissipate enough to not cause bluing on the shield itself.  It was a chrome lovers dream.  I do not think you have any over heating problem Macelm.