Raider Patches

Author Topic: CD Rated Oil  (Read 1299 times)

Coldfinger

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CD Rated Oil
« on: Nov 27, 2012, 01:13:37 PM »

I was poking around a little and my owners manual (2007 manual) says not to use CD rated oil.  Can someone verify that the latest manuals for 2012 or 2013 have some statement regarding CD oil?

The CD is obsolete. 

From the website:
http://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php
Service typical of certain naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged diesel engines where highly effective control of wear and deposits is vital, or when using fuels with a wide quality range (including high-sulfur fuels). Oils designed for this service were introduced in 1955 and provide protection from high temperature deposits and bearing corrosion in these diesel engines.

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If this statement is still in the more current versions of our manuals, does anyone know why?

Does this statment mean all C... oils or specifically just CD?


Coldfinger

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #1 on: Nov 28, 2012, 01:05:45 PM »
Still curious if the manuals for the newer models, 2012 or 2013, contain a statement not to use CD oil.

I figure since they modified the acceptable oil weights they may have changed that statement too since the date of the 2007 manual printing.

TRaider_John

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #2 on: Nov 28, 2012, 02:18:56 PM »
Page 7-13 of the 2013 Owners Manual still says you should not use oils with diesel specification, CD oils.  or oils of a higher quality than specified, or ENERGY CONSERVING II or higher.

I don't understand why you think they would have deleted it.  The "weight" has nothing to do with CD rating.

Coldfinger

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #3 on: Nov 28, 2012, 02:47:39 PM »
I know the weight has nothing to do with CD. 

I don't understand why they still mention CD because that is an obsolete diesel oil spec.  I'm not even sure you can buy it anywhere anyhow.   It was replaced with CE in 1985 and I believe the most current diesel oil rating is like CI.

My point is if they don't want us to use oils rated for diesels, wouldn't they have simply stated do no use oils rated C whatever instead of listing CD?  I thought maybe the newer manuals would have been changed since they obviously revised the weights of oil that are accepable.

I've got some Rotella 15w40 rated Jaso MA and before I change my oil for the winter I'm trying to find out if Yamaha meant to say CD or if they may have meant to say any C oil.




StrykerBilly

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #4 on: Nov 28, 2012, 06:36:24 PM »
Stryker manual has the same reference to no CD rated oils.  Lots of articles on oil that you could read till your eyes bug out but from what I gleaned most oils(and Rotella does this) rate themselves both ways.  Diesel specs don't superceed/invalidate previous specs the way automotive ones can(hence the reason to not go above) but in general I think the manual is just a little off on all of this since as your bike ages you won't be able to find oil with the published spec.
In spring I'm planning on putting in the rotella since it's reasonable and many people have been running it without any issues.  As you said it is JASO certified so it should be fine.  If after running it things seem worse, change it again.   
I also think the Rotella is rated SM and the 2012 manual only calls for SG so again it should be fine.

I'd rather change the oil earlier at say 3K with this then try and go longer because the oil price is so high.  I can do a full oil change with rotella for just about $25 which is a deal!

GlacierBlue

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #5 on: Nov 28, 2012, 08:32:09 PM »
Stryker manual has the same reference to no CD rated oils.  Lots of articles on oil that you could read till your eyes bug out but from what I gleaned most oils(and Rotella does this) rate themselves both ways.  Diesel specs don't superceed/invalidate previous specs the way automotive ones can(hence the reason to not go above) but in general I think the manual is just a little off on all of this since as your bike ages you won't be able to find oil with the published spec.
In spring I'm planning on putting in the rotella since it's reasonable and many people have been running it without any issues.  As you said it is JASO certified so it should be fine.  If after running it things seem worse, change it again.   
I also think the Rotella is rated SM and the 2012 manual only calls for SG so again it should be fine.

I'd rather change the oil earlier at say 3K with this then try and go longer because the oil price is so high.  I can do a full oil change with rotella for just about $25 which is a deal!
+1 Rotella!
Chris in Edinboro PA
2011 Raider S in Glacier Blue

Coldfinger

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #6 on: Nov 29, 2012, 01:16:14 PM »
I agree, Rotella has been (in my other bikes and atv's) and seems to meet Raider specs, however, I'm being OCD on the CD requirement in the manual and trying to figure out any reasonable explanation as to why Yamaha would state such a thing.  I'm wondering if the same requirement is in other manuals for big air cooled V-twins, like does anyone know if Harley says such a thing, or  Victory or Honda or Suzuki (though I don't if the latter two or three have large air cooled engines).

TRaider_John

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #7 on: Nov 29, 2012, 02:50:43 PM »
the caution is prefaced in the owner's manual by saying it is to prevent clutch slipping.  I think that, in general, deisel grade oils are made to be more slippery and the clutch may slip with some CD oils.  I don't think it has anything to do with air cooling or V-twin, or anything else particular to the Raider.  In fact, it may have something to do with the materials Yamaha uses in the clutch. 

GlacierBlue

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #8 on: Nov 29, 2012, 06:21:46 PM »
the caution is prefaced in the owner's manual by saying it is to prevent clutch slipping.  I think that, in general, deisel grade oils are made to be more slippery and the clutch may slip with some CD oils.  I don't think it has anything to do with air cooling or V-twin, or anything else particular to the Raider.  In fact, it may have something to do with the materials Yamaha uses in the clutch.

It may be that the high torque/hp of the Raider engine may cause the clutch to slip with the diesel rated oil more so than a lower power motorcycle.
Chris in Edinboro PA
2011 Raider S in Glacier Blue

Coldfinger

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #9 on: Nov 30, 2012, 02:37:14 PM »
Mystery solved to my satisfaction.  I called Yamaha USA (Star) and without hesitation the guy told me they state CD because though it is an obsolete spec in the U.S. there are many parts of the world where CD is still available.   The CD is the only diesel spec oil that should be specifically avoided.

GlacierBlue

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #10 on: Dec 02, 2012, 07:27:30 AM »
Mystery solved to my satisfaction.  I called Yamaha USA (Star) and without hesitation the guy told me they state CD because though it is an obsolete spec in the U.S. there are many parts of the world where CD is still available.   The CD is the only diesel spec oil that should be specifically avoided.

Thanks for checking on this.  I used Valvoline motorcycle oil for the 600 mile change, but going forward I'll be using Rotella.
Chris in Edinboro PA
2011 Raider S in Glacier Blue

StrykerBilly

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #11 on: Dec 02, 2012, 08:23:50 PM »
Mystery solved to my satisfaction.  I called Yamaha USA (Star) and without hesitation the guy told me they state CD because though it is an obsolete spec in the U.S. there are many parts of the world where CD is still available.   The CD is the only diesel spec oil that should be specifically avoided.

Thanks for checking on this.  I used Valvoline motorcycle oil for the 600 mile change, but going forward I'll be using Rotella.
Great news but you must be in some serious 3rd world country to find a CD rated oil that was retired decades ago ;D  Rotella synthetic for me come spring.

Coldfinger

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #12 on: Dec 03, 2012, 08:42:43 AM »
Rotella synthetic?  What weight?

JC

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #13 on: Dec 03, 2012, 04:57:35 PM »
only available in 5-40 i believe.
2011 Raider S

Coldfinger

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Re: CD Rated Oil
« Reply #14 on: Dec 03, 2012, 08:53:31 PM »
I use the T6 5w40 in my Concours and my XR650R but they are both liquid cooled.  I was a little concerned about the 5 part of the weight because both of these bike say 10 as minimum but I know a lot of people run it and it has been ok.

With the raider I figured I'd stay away from the 5 because it is air cooled and tolerances may be greater or some other reason that it would need more "film" upon startup but I'd like to know your take on the 5.