Yamaha Road Star Raider Motorcycle Forum

Raider Categories => General Raider Discussion => Topic started by: Peter Pollock on Jun 18, 2018, 02:35:25 pm

Title: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Peter Pollock on Jun 18, 2018, 02:35:25 pm
This thread is posted mostly for newbs who have bought a Raider in the last 5-6 years.  The old-time riders already know about this.  I was one of the original group who bought the bike back in 2008.  This thread is mostly about the Metzeler front tire.  There are tons and tons of comments by people who put 'fat tires' on the back of the bike.

The comments are based on hard experience.  I know 2 guys who put their Raiders down on the asphalt.  Both wound up in the hospital with broken ribs.  If you do 'pancake' your Yamaha power cruiser, this is the most common injury.  I dont want to make light of it ... broken ribs hurt a **lot** until the bones knit together.  It hasnt happened to me (and Im praying it doesnt), but thats what they both said.

1.  The first thing that happened is that Metzeler got the tire tread wrong.  On the '08 bikes, the tread pattern was backwards on the front wheel.  Kinda weird.  As far as I know  nobody ever had an accident on a wet road because of this.  Metz denied the whole thing, then they fixed the tread pattern when they made new tires.  Probably this issue affects **nobody** today. 

2.  Then we started to become aware that Metz rubber has good traction on dry asphalt, but it sucks on painted lines or wet asphalt.  This is the important lesson for newbs ... this is the major factor that puts Raiders down on the asphalt.  Here's how the problem happens ...

3.  Imagine you are riding your bike into a turn in the road.  The road is turning right, just a normal curve that goes to the right.  You decide to use a line with a 'delayed entry'.  This type of line is often recommended for motorcycles ... I use it a lot myself.  MC racers call it "squaring off the corner".  You keep going straight as the road starts to bend, putting you near the centerline.  Then you lean in harder (countersteering) to initiate the turn, you do the apex at the inside of the corner, then when you come out of the turn you are near the centerline again.  OK, so far so good.  The pattern is called outside-inside-outside.  It works fine if you are 100% under control.  But what if you misjudge, and you go through the turn too hot?  Your excess speed means that as you exit, your Raider crosses over the centerline, when you come out of the corner.  And then you are screwed. Because the Metz tire (front tire) will skate on the painted lines on the center of the road.  And BOOM!!  Your Raider just pancaked.  The only way to avoid this is ... (a) pucker up at the apex of the turn, scrape the pegs, and get through the curve without overshooting, (b) Overshoot the centerline completely, then do another correction on the wrong side of the road, hopefully with no oncoming traffic ready to wipe you out.  But whatever you do ... do not brake, or lean the bike, on those painted lines on the road.  The Metz tire offers no forgiveness.

4.  Here's the other scenario.  You exit from a freeway  and you enter an offramp.  Your speed is hot.  And its bad luck that there was a quick shower of rain.  The road surface is just a little damp.  As you squeeze that front brake ... BAM!!  Your bike pancakes and you are sliding down the offramp.  This scenario tends to happen to guys who use their front brakes in a heavy way.  But its easy to do, and it happens super-fast.  The Metz tire on the front wheel sucks on wet asphalt ... its really bad.  For this reason i am super careful to use the front brake "very easy" any time the road surface is wet.  And I also use the rear brake more ... you need to bleed off your "excess speed" as gently as possible, using both brakes..

Good luck out there, and I hope that everyone has a great summer for riding.

distantThunder
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Ares X on Jun 18, 2018, 02:53:35 pm
Pinned this to the top so it remains on the first page.
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Zxdave on Jun 19, 2018, 05:46:16 am
Well put DT , great info for new guys to sure
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Badbluraider on Jun 19, 2018, 06:23:05 am
:agree: Those painted lines are definitely not your friend when your tire hits it in a turn. Even had my Avon's a few times start to wash when the front tire got on the center carrying to much speed ???
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: wfm113 on Jun 19, 2018, 06:45:33 am
Canít agree more with you, the wide white stripes at intersections are not your friend either in the rain. Had the rear tire on my V-Star start to go sideways once in the rain on me when starting off under normal throttle.
Ride safe
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Badbluraider on Jun 19, 2018, 07:28:23 am
Yeah those wide ones at an intersection can really hamper your stopping ability when the light changes at the second on you :crying:
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: sundancer87 on Jun 19, 2018, 07:34:08 am
Traffic paint contains a certain amount of silica sand, mostly for its reflective properties.  After a while the sand gets broken into small particles known as dust.  Go figure, trying to stay upright floating on dust.

Great post but one major point overlooked or I didn't see it.  When riding in unknown parts or damp road conditions how 'bout just slowin' the freak down?

I don't use my motorcycle to kill roads or impress anyone, too old for that shit and I'm old because I knew when to keep the speed to a manageable level.

Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Peter Pollock on Jun 19, 2018, 03:35:07 pm
Agree with you 100%.  How about ... just slow down and be more patient.  That's a lifesaver. 

I didnt do that in the early days that I owned my Raider.. I cranked the throttle a lot.  It doesnt take much - you know.  One small turn of the wrist and that big V-twin cranks out mega-torque.   In the old days, I rode a lot of curves ... I went up in the mountains constantly and rode hundreds of curves ... so I got the Raider's handling "dialed in". 

But traffic is unpredictable.  And you never know what is on the road ahead.  These days ... I dial back that speedometer - a lot.   Slow-in, faster out ... that was the old teaching for riding curves from the MC safety classes.  Good wisdom!!.

Thanks for the advice on white lines.  Didnt know that. 

dT
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: CHROMINATOR on Jun 21, 2018, 09:44:05 am
Any tire, not just Metz will slide on the painted lines.  As for wet pavement some tires are better than others.  I don't know about the Metz, I have never ridden on them.  The Avons hold very well on wet pavement but not at all on painted lines.  Stay safe by staying off the lines.  At intersections I don't start my turn until after I know I am clear of the crosswalk lines.  Those will ruin your day before you know what's going on.
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Dark Matter on Jun 21, 2018, 11:53:13 am
I call painted lines "ice".
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Badbluraider on Jun 21, 2018, 06:47:43 pm
I call painted lines "ice".
:agree:
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: ernie on Feb 09, 2019, 05:13:56 pm
 Those early days or a distant bad memory. Tried many tires since then, I think the Avon had great overall traction in all conditions except on the tar snakes at plague upstate New York and Iím sure many other places. I currently have the Michelin Commander tires on front and back they make a noticeable improvement in those circumstances. Iím getting very good mileage out of them also.
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: sscottab on Feb 10, 2019, 06:18:05 am
i also run the michelin front and rear and far better then the metzler
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Silver Bullet on May 12, 2019, 11:33:46 am
I run Avon front and back (rear 240) and have never gone down.  I have slipped on metal rail tracks and new paint though.  I dont think slick surfaces will matter what tire you run so be careful out there!
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Sgt Fury on May 14, 2019, 10:33:29 pm
Any tire, not just Metz will slide on the painted lines.  As for wet pavement some tires are better than others.  I don't know about the Metz, I have never ridden on them.  The Avons hold very well on wet pavement but not at all on painted lines.  Stay safe by staying off the lines.  At intersections I don't start my turn until after I know I am clear of the crosswalk lines.  Those will ruin your day before you know what's going on.

 :agree:  I have ridden on my "fairly new" Metz 888's in very hard, driving rain last summer (not by choice).  They did well under the circumstances and driving with caution and reduced speed, similar to my Dunlops on other bikes.  White stripes are the scary part for ANY tire, esp. the vinyl ones they "torch" onto the pavement around here.  Considering all the comments on this site for years, Avons will be my next set to try (with the 240!)   O8O
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Blueridge Raider on May 15, 2019, 09:57:10 am
I have the Metz 888's now on my bike, I have run all the other brands mentioned, over 100k between the two Raiders I have owned, and still like the Metz 888's the best overall.
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: ladrox on Jun 24, 2019, 11:08:29 am
Just another thought...the "snakes" from roadcrews can ruin your day as well.
Title: Re: Raider Front Tire - How To Stay In One Piece
Post by: Dano on Jul 18, 2019, 01:00:32 pm
Hey DT,

Just back from a 3-week, 3K+ trip from Boise ID, to the Black Hills, down to CO, through Gunnison/Crested Butte, and back NW via Flaming Gorge, Jackson Hole, Arco.  Got rained on lightly, and some hail, a couple times and can vouch for the squirrely nature of the Metz fronts.  Bought my 08 Raider in 2017 with only 4.5K miles.  Dealer in LA had put on new Metz tires front and back.  Now that I am back home (and experiencing severe culture shock from not being on the road! :), I will be replacing both tires with Avons.  Never laid my Red Raider down, but could sure feel the instability at times on mountain curves, and have always focused on avoiding paint, etc. in any turns.   Lived in Spearfish for 8 years, and also want to let anyone reading this that the Black Hills area - Devils Tower, Deadwood, Sturgis, Needles, Vanoeker, Rushmore, Devil's tower, etc. are the most beautiful I have ever seen them.  Incredibly green, lush due to a very wet Spring.  Lastly, have had my Raider on several 3K+ trips (two to Canada, and this year's Black Hills/CO trip) with no issues whatsoever.  Put on a good seat (absolutely critical for extended road trips and daily rides of 200-350+ miles; I have a Corbin), sissy bar for luggage support, and saddle bags, and she does great.  Comfortable, and an absolute joy to ride.  I would not want any other bike for a long trip (don't want to ride a two-wheeled lounge chair with a radio, cup holders, little wind shear, etc.  Just TOO comfortable and cushy for me.  Thanks again for taking the time to post some very important information on tires and safety.  Best wishes to all, and stay safe.  -Dano