Yamaha Road Star Raider Motorcycle Forum

Raider Categories => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: RaydarRatRace on Jun 30, 2020, 08:36:50 pm

Title: Oil change question
Post by: RaydarRatRace on Jun 30, 2020, 08:36:50 pm
Hi all,

Quick question.  I took the bike to a shop today to get the oil changed.  I later realized they used one less quart than usual, and in looking at the 3 drainage holes, they missed the middle hole.  I'd say about a fifth of the oil currently in the bike is the old oil, approx 2000 miles.  Should I be concerned enough to have this re-done, or am I ok with this currently?


Cheers,
Raydar
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: A.T. on Jun 30, 2020, 09:46:56 pm
I'd demand the money back and find another shop, or redo it yourself.  If they forgot to open all three drains, they probably didn't add enough oil.  Did you check it afterwards following the check procedure?

On this bike, the bike appears full after about 4 quarts and motor has to be started, revved a bit to move the oil around, and then the rest added.  If they didn't do this, they may have stopped at 4 quarts. 

But to answer your question: if the oil amount is correct, and 1/5 is old, you should be okay - I'd do the next change sooner.   
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: RaydarRatRace on Jun 30, 2020, 10:37:43 pm
Yes the amount of oil is OK.  They put 4 new quarts in, and the last old quart is still there, mixed in with it.  Glad you think it's OK, I will do the next one myself after around 2,000 miles (if that's too long let me know your opinion).  I'm upset with the shop but they're the only one nearby so I'll just have to eat the $50. 

I'm shopping for a low-cost bike lift so I can start doing oil myself.  Any ideas?  I'm looking at the scissor jacks and bike lifts under $150.  Any recommendations?  The scissor jack looks cool but there are 2 bolts under the bike that it might rest on so I'm a bit concerned over it.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Fiddles on Jul 01, 2020, 05:48:19 am
Yes the amount of oil is OK.  They put 4 new quarts in, and the last old quart is still there, mixed in with it.  Glad you think it's OK, I will do the next one myself after around 2,000 miles (if that's too long let me know your opinion).  I'm upset with the shop but they're the only one nearby so I'll just have to eat the $50. 

I'm shopping for a low-cost bike lift so I can start doing oil myself.  Any ideas?  I'm looking at the scissor jacks and bike lifts under $150.  Any recommendations?  The scissor jack looks cool but there are 2 bolts under the bike that it might rest on so I'm a bit concerned over it.
get 3 concrete blocks,  raise bike up and put a block under front and rear tires and under side stand  remove jack now you have plenty of room for oil change
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Pir8 on Jul 01, 2020, 10:07:51 am
Yes the amount of oil is OK.  They put 4 new quarts in, and the last old quart is still there, mixed in with it.  Glad you think it's OK, I will do the next one myself after around 2,000 miles (if that's too long let me know your opinion).  I'm upset with the shop but they're the only one nearby so I'll just have to eat the $50. 

I'm shopping for a low-cost bike lift so I can start doing oil myself.  Any ideas?  I'm looking at the scissor jacks and bike lifts under $150.  Any recommendations?  The scissor jack looks cool but there are 2 bolts under the bike that it might rest on so I'm a bit concerned over it.
get 3 concrete blocks,  raise bike up and put a block under front and rear tires and under side stand  remove jack now you have plenty of room for oil change

Yup.  I have a Craftsman (the Yellow one) lift that I have used for the Bolt, Shadow, and now the Raider. 

For oil changes, I just drop down 3 2x6 scraps, pull the bike onto them (pulling is easier than pushing), throw the third one under the kickstand, and do the oil change like that, no lift needed.  I use a kitty litter box as a oil pan and it just fits height wise, but due to being pretty long, you can reach in and get to the plugs. I also just drop the plugs into the oil, don't worry about catching them, use a magnet to retrieve them.  Much less mess.

I'd definitely ask for my money back. Any reputable shop that made that mistake would rectify it, any shop that wouldn't rectify that mistake isn't reputable. Honestly, I'd also change the oil.  What kind did they use?  Synthetic? What weight? I'm not looking to get into which is better, just that mixing is bad.  I think 30-50 bux vs worrying all summer if your motor is going to explode is an easy decision.  I know times are hard, but engine damage will cost more than an oil change. (I also think engine damage from this is unlikely, but personally, I wouldn't take the risk.)
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: RaydarRatRace on Jul 01, 2020, 02:16:23 pm
It's 20w50 castrol mineral oil.  Been using it often.  I have one guy telling me 1/5 old oil is OK, and another telling me it's bad.  Any further insight?
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Damnbiker on Jul 01, 2020, 03:03:03 pm
Regarding the mixed opinions...you are going to get that on here. It comes down to what each person's preference is in your given situation.

As far as engine wear or potential damage occurring if you leave it alone? No more-no less. Your engine will be fine.

Is it worth you going back to the shop and having them change the oil again? Up to you, of course, but keep this in mind...I'm sure they only charged you for the oil that was put into the engine, so if expect to owe for that additional quart (unless they want to eat the cost for your inconvenience of having to go back).

My opinion is that you aren't wrong with choosing either option. Ultimately, my choice would be that if it is going to bother you enough to reduce the enjoyment of riding and it will consistently stay on your mind, then have them fix it and be confident you have 100% fresh oil.

Lastly, if it is the only shop near you and there aren't many options, I wouldn't raise call kinds of hell and burn a bridge over an honest mistake. They should make it right somehow...store credit, next service 1/2 price, etc.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: dukedomain on Jul 01, 2020, 04:06:10 pm
Running for a couple thousand miles with mixed oil/old oil/different weight oil isn’t going hurt a thing.  Fill it and ride it!
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Pir8 on Jul 02, 2020, 10:23:30 am
Running for a couple thousand miles with mixed oil/old oil/different weight oil isn’t going hurt a thing.  Fill it and ride it!

I agree that odds are running it this way won't cause damage, though it's more likely too than if the job had been done correctly. I just think "the standard we walk past is the standard we accept". I'd get my money back.  And I'd change my own oil.  If demanding your money back from someone who doesn't do a job to a basic minimum standard standard alienates them, I don't want to do business with them. I think "change all of the oil" is a pretty low standard for an oil change.

I used to be a retail manager of a large big box electronics store, if someone told me an installer did something like this, I'd give them store credit in a heartbeat and if that didn't make them feel whole, I'd refund the charge.  Better to keep their future business than quibble over bad service.

I did think of one possibility, did they charge you for a filter?  Some manuals (haven't checked ours) have different intervals for oil change with a filter and without.  This wouldn't account for an entire quart, but perhaps they just didn't need to open a new one and you just need to top it off. 
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: RaydarRatRace on Jul 02, 2020, 11:10:13 am
I brought my own oil and filter.  I thought something was up when they only used 4 of the 5 bottles, and when the middle oil plug was bone dry. 

Does anyone know if the oil is circulated through the whole bike, or if the oil is separated?  Meaning, if they missed the middle hole, does that oil all still get circulated anyway?
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: ROADKILL on Jul 02, 2020, 11:22:25 am
I brought my own oil and filter.  I thought something was up when they only used 4 of the 5 bottles, and when the middle oil plug was bone dry. 

Does anyone know if the oil is circulated through the whole bike, or if the oil is separated?  Meaning, if they missed the middle hole, does that oil all still get circulated anyway?
Yes the oil will circulate - all the oil is now mixed since they poured the new oil in on top of the old oil - I find it strange that they would use the oil and filter that you brought a lot of dealerships won't do that because if the oil you brought caused some type of failure - just like some shops won't install a tire that the customer brings with them. If you have other options for maintenance I'd use them.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Zekester on Jul 02, 2020, 03:10:48 pm
The shop that changed the oil in your Raider should make it right,  I would let them know and see what they would do for you.  If nothing is done by them I would change the oil properly myself right away or it would bother me every time I rode.  Just my opinion.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: RaydarRatRace on Jul 02, 2020, 03:29:25 pm
I went over there today and they agreed to book an appointment drain all 3 plugs and give me fresh oil.  I just hope buddy doesn't round out the hex bolt plug, as it seems a bit rounded.  Anyway, it's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Pir8 on Jul 02, 2020, 03:59:37 pm
That is a great first step. I'd verify what oil/filter they intend to use (or are you bringing it?). Glad to hear they seem to be making it right.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Zxdave on Jul 02, 2020, 07:14:42 pm
Running for a couple thousand miles with mixed oil/old oil/different weight oil isn’t going hurt a thing.  Fill it and ride it!

Agreed , having it filled to proper level is the most important it this matter I think , you’ll be fine
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Zekester on Jul 03, 2020, 06:40:39 am
If you have a partially rounded head on one of your drain plugs and have the time before your appt. I would get a replacement drain plugs,  I believe there is a thread on here about what aftermarket ones are better than factory.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: ROADKILL on Jul 03, 2020, 07:04:30 am
If you have a partially rounded head on one of your drain plugs and have the time before your appt. I would get a replacement drain plugs,  I believe there is a thread on here about what aftermarket ones are better than factory.
I agree you should have them put a new drain plug in - this might be the reason that they didn't pull that plug to begin with.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Coldfinger on Jul 03, 2020, 09:20:58 am
I know they are going to make it right.

If they wouldnt have, I wouldnt worry about 1 quart of 2000 mile oil being mixed with the new as long as there were no other reasons you were changing oil at 2000 miles because a lot of people go way more miles than that between changes.

For easier access, I tie the bike down by the handlebars, like you do when trailering, and use a floor jack under the rear suspension linkage to raise the back end of bike up enough for easy access to all oil plugs.   
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: StrykerBilly on Jul 03, 2020, 09:50:29 am
Running for a couple thousand miles with mixed oil/old oil/different weight oil isn’t going hurt a thing.  Fill it and ride it!

Agreed , having it filled to proper level is the most important it this matter I think , you’ll be fine

Yep.  Quickest way to blow an engine is to be low on oil!!
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: RaydarRatRace on Jul 05, 2020, 12:42:40 am
Thx for the help all, I'm enjoying my fresh oil.  Can someone link aftermarket oil drain plugs that will fit all holes?
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: A.T. on Jul 05, 2020, 07:12:06 am
Couple of choices.  Take one of the bolts to your Auto Parts store to match - believe the size is14mm by 1.5mm

-  https://www.amazon.com/Outlaw-Racing-Magnetic-Motorcycle-Valkyrie/dp/B00AWESL0U (https://www.amazon.com/Outlaw-Racing-Magnetic-Motorcycle-Valkyrie/dp/B00AWESL0U)

-  https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/oil-drain-plug/needa-parts-engine-oil-drain-plug-653106/257262_959494_5225 (https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/oil-drain-plug/needa-parts-engine-oil-drain-plug-653106/257262_959494_5225)

-  https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/needa-parts-oil-drain-plug-magnetic-m14-150-head-size-14mm-65216/5019990-P (https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/needa-parts-oil-drain-plug-magnetic-m14-150-head-size-14mm-65216/5019990-P)

Good luck
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Zekester on Jul 05, 2020, 07:21:58 pm
I bought a set off ebay or amazon but cannot find the package right now.  A.T is correct M14 x 1.5 and get them with a 12-14mm size bolt head for easier access with a wrench.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: RaydarRatRace on Jul 29, 2020, 06:09:56 pm
Hey folks, back again, thanks for the help earlier. 

I've been riding around on my fresh oil (was told it was yamalube 20w50 mineral oil), and noticed the engine has been a lot hotter lately than usual.  I'm used to using Castrol 20w50 mineral oil.  Almost, scorching to the touch.  It also takes many, many hours to cool off.  It has been very hot here lately weather-wise, like 100 deg, but, its noticeably much more hotter than usual.  Thinking of changing the oil again back to castrol. 

Looking for opinions - might it be that they put in oil that was sitting on their shelf for a few years?  Is there any way to test if this is due to oil? 
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: ZEUS67 on Jul 29, 2020, 06:43:16 pm
It's been really hot up here in the Northeast too and I'm using Castrol Actevo 20w50 semi synthetic with pretty good luck. Not really aware of the bike staying hot for a long time but I'll have to pay more attention to that. Sometimes it hard to tell because the sun hitting the bike may also keep it hotter than normal too
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Ares X on Jul 29, 2020, 07:36:46 pm
Explain to me what you all consider HOT?
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Coldfinger on Jul 29, 2020, 07:57:59 pm
I dont think it would make much difference.

I was monitoring temps on the gauge for a while, just for an experiment to see if engine temp varies with humidity and how much it follows air temperature and then came to the conclusion there are just too many variables to try and control and I didnt have the ambition to try and do a more controlled test. 
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: RaydarRatRace on Jul 29, 2020, 11:07:36 pm
@ AresX - The motor is like stovetop hot, like the top of a blazing wood stove.  It also stays hot a lot longer.  That started after that new oil was put in.  Makes me wonder if the technician put in 10w40 instead of 20w50. 
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Kevs UK Raider SCL on Jul 30, 2020, 09:26:04 am
I've ridden in 125 degree temps in Nevada in August time and I used 20w50 Mineral Oil and I think the engine temps according to the gauge was around 246 degrees.
The engine oil obviously thins out at those temps so the engine "ticks" a little.

I use 20w50 Semi Syn nowadays and it works for me. I never use 10w40 on any of my Raiders.

Zero issues. I do like to change the oil every 4k or so unless I'm on a 5k road trip :) plus I always change the filter at every oil change.
 
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Ron505 on Jul 30, 2020, 03:34:21 pm
Explain to me what you all consider HOT?

 :rotfl:  You tell him what hot is Ares.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Ares X on Jul 30, 2020, 03:51:43 pm
Yesterday weather.com had a high temperature reported as 113°, but a buddy of mine was out in his truck and the thermometer reading showed him 121°.  I don't doubt this since a couple of weeks ago I was out and it was only supposed to be 109°, but the truck was showing 116°.

Weather.com is showing 115° right now. I'm guessing it's actually much hotter.
Title: Re: Oil change question
Post by: Pir8 on Jul 30, 2020, 05:16:18 pm
Could also be an air density thing, not just that it's hotter; but that because its hotter the air is thinner and draws less heat away?