Yamaha Road Star Raider Motorcycle Forum

Raider Categories => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Land Shark on Oct 27, 2020, 02:03:21 pm

Title: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Land Shark on Oct 27, 2020, 02:03:21 pm
I recently finished changing the spark plugs on my 2011 Raider and was excited to fire it up and see if it solved my rough running issues. Turned the key, flipped the fuel pump on, hit the starter and I get nothing but clickety-clicks with gauge dimming. No turn over attempt at the engine.  Even after I release the button it continues a quieter clicking associated with gauge dimming until I turn off the fuel pump again.  See the attached video link.

https://youtu.be/WmeBs3khMxU

Has anyone experienced this before or have any input?

The battery is charged and bike was running last week but I have been having issues with the engine running rough and the engine power disappearing and sputtering on acceleration.  It has been this way since uncovering the bike in the spring but appeared to improve with some seafoam.  I decided to try changing the plugs with I've done numerous times on my previous sport bike without any issues.  I opted to rotate and prop the gas tank without any issues. All plugs changed, fuel line valves opened, and all the electrical lines reconnected.  I plan  to remove the cluster again and recheck all the connectors but has anyone experienced this or something similar and have any advice? This surely isn't how I wanted to end my limited riding season 😕
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: sundancer87 on Oct 27, 2020, 03:29:10 pm
The battery may show a charge (surface only) but not be good at all.  The clicking says the relay and switches are working and the starter is trying to turn which is a good sign but with the instrument cluster dropping out like that I'm thinking the battery is shot or at least a cell is breaking down.
Battery first and then maybe check the starter.
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Land Shark on Oct 27, 2020, 03:39:13 pm
Okay, so I was in the process of checking this when your reply came in.  Volts at the terminal 12.44. The bike reacts the same way when I bridge the battery to the starter--Lingering clicks until I turn off the fuel pump. 
HOWEVER when I use my battery jumper the engine turns right over and runs super smoothly...until the jumper turns off and then the bike dies immediately.

I will pick up a new battery but it still doesn't make sense to me.  I could start the bike a week ago on this battery and it would run fine. Could a battery show 12.4 volts and not even have enough juice to sustain a running bike on the alternator after the cranking is out of the equation?
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Zekester on Oct 27, 2020, 03:53:38 pm
You need to do a load test on the battery.  If it starts with fine with a jump then it sounds like the battery is dropping voltage when under a load and yes the battery can show good voltage across the terminals but cannot handle a load indicating internal problems in the battery.
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: sundancer87 on Oct 27, 2020, 04:20:49 pm
Okay, so I was in the process of checking this when your reply came in.  Volts at the terminal 12.44. The bike reacts the same way when I bridge the battery to the starter--Lingering clicks until I turn off the fuel pump. 
HOWEVER when I use my battery jumper the engine turns right over and runs super smoothly...until the jumper turns off and then the bike dies immediately.

I will pick up a new battery but it still doesn't make sense to me.  I could start the bike a week ago on this battery and it would run fine. Could a battery show 12.4 volts and not even have enough juice to sustain a running bike on the alternator after the cranking is out of the equation?

A battery can show good according to a voltage level at rest.  Once a load is applied it all goes down hill.  Put your VOM on the battery and see how much it drops when you try to start it.
Years ago when motorcycle batteries had removable caps on them we could test the cells individually to see which one was breaking down.  Of course that was the days when they sent a bottle of acid with the battery, it was a fill it yourself world then.

I forgot to add, the alternator has to have its fields excited in order to produce any voltage.  If the battery is essentially dead the alternator won't keep the bike running, hence, it dies when the booster shuts off.
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Kevs UK Raider SCL on Oct 27, 2020, 05:53:46 pm
The voltage on the battery needs to be 14+ so you have what is called the "CC" element to the battery. Its Cold Cranking" which is the element that turns the bike over.
12volts won't cut it.

Your issue could be the starter solenoid so that's another area to check.

Good Luck, you'll find the issue in the end. It's a process of elimination
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Land Shark on Oct 27, 2020, 06:43:20 pm
All great information, thank you so much. I'm going to get a new battery to start after I do a bit of research on here   :) The fuel pump wouldn't initialize at all unless I had the jumper connected.  That doesn't seem to be hopeful for the battery considering it was fresh of the charger.  I'll start there and move on to the relay if that doesn't solve it. 

Also odd: with the key in the OFF position the speedo needle cycled (? Not sure what to call it) intermittently while I was testing the battery voltage 🤔
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: StrykerBilly on Oct 27, 2020, 07:01:40 pm
You sort of lost me with "Fuel pump on"...  never heard of anyone having to turn that on separate.

That said, all the other replies are correct in that the battery seems suspect.
However, you are able to start with a jumppack but then dies when you remove.  That shouldn't happen assuming...:

- Battery terminal connections are tight and not corroded.  You need a complete circuit to keep the FI running(bike as well)
- Charging system is fine.  A bad charging system will make a good battery appear bad.
- Run the standard tests for a battery/charging system(YouTube has plenty of vids) after making sure all connections are tight.  A simple loose connection creates a TON of resistance and will wreak havoc on many components and possible even make some of them fail.

Go for the low-hanging fruit first always!! :)
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Land Shark on Oct 27, 2020, 07:35:48 pm
I was referring to the kill switch.  Correct me if I'm way off, but the whir when you flip it to run is the fuel pump priming, no?  That whirring noise wouldn't initialize unless I had the jumper attached. 

Terminals and connections clean and tight. Checked that first. Will remove the tank again over the weekend and triple check all the connectors but I was pretty thorough. It's concerning to me because I've killed a lot of batteries through the years but this one doesn't add up in my head since it was working last week and now it's not.  I'm not discounting the excited alternator comment , but I've never had a battery be so dead that it won't keep a running vehicle on.  Since I had the battery out while swapping the plugs, and couldn't have misconnected anything, I'm going to remain confident the electrical system is fine and continue to test the low hanging fruit 🙂 I'll keep everyone updated and thank you again for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Land Shark on Oct 31, 2020, 01:58:39 pm
New battery did the trick :) I lifted the tank again and everything was connected correctly.  I also took the opportunity to install a K&N so there's a bright side. Unfortunately the battery I bought was a bit too big to fit in the tray.  I removed the tray to try to modify it but that was a complete mistake because that is going to be a real pain in the @$$ to put back on. I decided to just order the correct battery and reassemble at some point.

Anyone else have the issue where NOTHING EVER GOES AS SMOOTHLY AS THEY PLANNED?   Lol  Thanks for all the input.
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: sundancer87 on Oct 31, 2020, 02:44:50 pm
Now the thing to do is put the VOM on the new battery and bring the machine off idle to see if the voltage rises.  That will tell you the battery is getting charged and the stator is good.
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Land Shark on Oct 31, 2020, 04:24:46 pm
Sounds like a plan. Will do when the new one is installed.
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Zekester on Oct 31, 2020, 05:28:26 pm
At least you found the problem so that is a plus.  Hope all goes well when you get your correct battery. :raider:
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Land Shark on Nov 07, 2020, 12:42:57 pm
Everything put back together with the new battery, fired right up, and is running smoothly at 14.15V 😀 Life is good.  Thanks again everyone.  :raider:
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: StrykerBilly on Nov 08, 2020, 10:11:39 am
Everything put back together with the new battery, fired right up, and is running smoothly at 14.15V 😀 Life is good.  Thanks again everyone.  :raider:

1 follow-up on it running fine before and then stopped after doing the work.  You probably had just enough of a surface charge(or a bad cell wasn't totally gone yet) that used every few days it started/ran fine.
I've had car batteries that failed the load test but ran the car fine as they were daily drivers...
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Land Shark on Nov 09, 2020, 08:08:35 am
That is actually what was throwing me off because I killed a lot of batteries before I learned enough about car stereos but I never had a battery that wouldn't at least keep the car running once it was jumped.  In my head I was assuming the worst and the battery wasn't available locally and waiting didn't help anything lol.  Lesson learned. 
Title: Re: Clicking, won't turn over after spark plug change
Post by: Roadstrat21 on Feb 02, 2021, 01:39:00 am
I was referring to the kill switch.  Correct me if I'm way off, but the whir when you flip it to run is the fuel pump priming, no?  That whirring noise wouldn't initialize unless I had the jumper attached. 

Terminals and connections clean and tight. Checked that first. Will remove the tank again over the weekend and triple check all the connectors but I was pretty thorough. It's concerning to me because I've killed a lot of batteries through the years but this one doesn't add up in my head since it was working last week and now it's not.  I'm not discounting the excited alternator comment , but I've never had a battery be so dead that it won't keep a running vehicle on.  Since I had the battery out while swapping the plugs, and couldn't have misconnected anything, I'm going to remain confident the electrical system is fine and continue to test the low hanging fruit 🙂 I'll keep everyone updated and thank you again for the suggestions.
your probably mostly hearing the servo motor for the exup valve at startup