Author Topic: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.  (Read 23701 times)

WilCon

  • Search police and general nuisance.
  • Raider
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 3417
  • Referrals: 6
Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
« on: Jun 20, 2012, 03:11:04 pm »
So there have been many discussions about the PCV with Auto Tune. I want to clear up some misinformation so people can make an accurate judgement about it versus the Cobra Power Pro. Some of the items will be specific to the Raider and some of the items will be more general.

Items that are believed but not accurate.
1. Auto Tune is only used to create a map and then not used.
    - While you could do this you would be doing yourself a disservice. The Auto Tune is the closest to a car fuel injection for a motorcycle you can get. When in operational mode it makes on the fly adjustments to your fueling and saves these values for you to look at later and decide if you want to save to your permanent fuel map. This makes it easy to travel from coast to coast and if you never want to touch after it gets set up you never have to. For someone like me who likes to tweak it's a lot of fun. You can always go back to a base map and start over.
2. Auto Tune does not tune in real time.
    - As I stated above it absolutely tunes on the fly, you have two options. Run it in learn mode where it adjusts values and you have to accept the trims for it to make any adjustments this mode learns and adjusts real time. It does not save the values in the saved map, it still keeps them in the trim table but it modifies the motors fuel curve while riding so you get the optimum AFR. You can also turn it to just use the base saved map, this can be made easier by wiring in a switch so you can select which mode on the fly.

These are the two biggest misconception I have read on multiple forums regarding this setup.

One other item of much discussion is exhaust reversion. This is caused by exhaust gases being pulled back into the combustion chamber. This usually happens at idle or during shut down. Which for the Raider can be during engine braking because of the way fueling is handled. This condition is typically caused by exhausts that are too short for the motor without enough of a pulse to keep the exhaust gases flowing away from the cylinder head. There are other causes but for the Raider this is a common item.

Some advantages if you like to completely control the tuning.
1. You can program AFR by RPM, throttle opening and even individual gears. For some this is overwhelming. You can opt to just run the base settings that DynoJet sends it with, this is designed for a leaner cruising throttle for good economy and optimum power AFR for larger throttle openings and acceleration.

2. From feedback from users of other tuning modules the PCV is superior when it comes to resisting environmental issues, waterproof and virtually indestructible as well as a proven track record of reliability are strong selling points.

Disadvantages.
1. More difficult to install, requires a laptop or computer to setup.

2. The Auto Tune is not a custom fit option, it is not difficult but the O2 sensors do not fit the Raider and require exhaust modification. this is probably the biggest single issue with this system on several different kinds of motorcycles. If you have 18mm O2 sensors this is a non-issue.

This is not a sales pitch, just clearing up some issues so people can make a hopefully educated decision.
« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2012, 10:26:04 am by WilCon »
The above post is strictly the opinion of the poster, disregard as necessary.

If the above post is in RED then it was a moderator talking, you should pay attention.

RoadStarRaider

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Starky

    • Raider
    • *****
    • *
    • *
    • *
    • *
    • Join Date: Mar 2009
    • Posts: 2227
    • Referrals: 0
    Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
    « Reply #1 on: Jun 20, 2012, 03:14:42 pm »
    Nicely put Wilcon
    You can run, but you will only die tired.
    From a place you cannot see comes a sound you will never hear.

    Scoob

    • 2012 ROM Winner
    • Raider
    • *
    • *
    • *
    • Join Date: Jan 2010
    • Posts: 4304
    • Referrals: 1
    Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
    « Reply #2 on: Jun 20, 2012, 03:21:00 pm »
    Thanks for the info :D
    One question for you-where do you go to switch it between learn mode and on mode?

    • Advertisement

      Mr. T

      • Administrator
      • Raider
      • *****
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • Join Date: Feb 2009
      • Posts: 20438
      • Referrals: 4
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #3 on: Jun 20, 2012, 03:22:37 pm »
      Thanks for the info :D
      One question for you-where do you go to switch it between learn mode and on mode?

      I was about to ask the same question...  ;D
      « Last Edit: Jun 20, 2012, 03:25:52 pm by Mr. T »

        July 2009

      If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat?  ;D

      Harley... the art of turning gas into noise without all that pesky horsepower.  ;D

      WilCon

      • Search police and general nuisance.
      • Raider
      • *****
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • Join Date: Jan 2009
      • Posts: 3417
      • Referrals: 6
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #4 on: Jun 20, 2012, 03:24:19 pm »
      You have to connect the PCV to the computer and it is an option. Not having it on it's hard to give a play by play of how but I believe it's under configuration.

      From the directions:

      Go to Power Commander Tools - Configure - Features Enabled and Input Selection
      Check the box next to Auto Tune and Enable
      This enables the Auto Tune
      In that selection there is the option to use a switch, you can wire a switch to turn on the Auto Tune or turn it off.This allows you to switch between the corrective mode and the base map.
      « Last Edit: Jun 20, 2012, 03:27:40 pm by WilCon »
      The above post is strictly the opinion of the poster, disregard as necessary.

      If the above post is in RED then it was a moderator talking, you should pay attention.

      Mr. T

      • Administrator
      • Raider
      • *****
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • Join Date: Feb 2009
      • Posts: 20438
      • Referrals: 4
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #5 on: Jun 20, 2012, 03:27:54 pm »
      You have to connect the PCV to the computer and it is an option. Not having it on it's hard to give a play by play of how but I believe it's under configuration.

      Well.... my son pawned my laptop.  Not once but twice. Drug problem... but I digress.
      Guess it will have to wait until I get another one.   

        July 2009

      If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat?  ;D

      Harley... the art of turning gas into noise without all that pesky horsepower.  ;D

      WilCon

      • Search police and general nuisance.
      • Raider
      • *****
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • Join Date: Jan 2009
      • Posts: 3417
      • Referrals: 6
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #6 on: Jun 20, 2012, 03:30:20 pm »
      You have to connect the PCV to the computer and it is an option. Not having it on it's hard to give a play by play of how but I believe it's under configuration.

      Well.... my son pawned my laptop.  Not once but twice. Drug problem... but I digress.
      Guess it will have to wait until I get another one.

      That sucks. I edited the original post, it was not accurate because when writing a book and working back and forth I left some stuff out and put some other info in the wrong spot.
      The above post is strictly the opinion of the poster, disregard as necessary.

      If the above post is in RED then it was a moderator talking, you should pay attention.

      Capt_Zoom

      • Raider
      • *****
      • Join Date: Mar 2009
      • Posts: 9698
      • Referrals: 1
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #7 on: Jun 20, 2012, 07:55:25 pm »
      So there have been many discussions about the PCV with Auto Tune. I want to clear up some misinformation so people can make an accurate judgement about it versus the Cobra Power Pro. Some of the items will be specific to the Raider and some of the items will be more general.

      Items that are believed but not accurate.
      1. Auto Tune is only used to create a map and then not used.
          - While you could do this you would be doing yourself a disservice. The Auto Tune is the closest to a car fuel injection for a motorcycle you can get. When in operational mode it makes on the fly adjustments to your fueling and saves these values for you to look at later and decide if you want to save to your permanent fuel map. This makes it easy to travel from coast to coast and if you never want to touch after it gets set up you never have to. For someone like me who likes to tweak it's a lot of fun. You can always go back to a base map and start over.
      2. Auto Tune does not tune in real time.
          - As I stated above it absolutely tunes on the fly, you have two options. Run it in learn mode where it adjusts values and you have to accept the trims for it to make any adjustments this mode learns and adjusts real time. It does not save the values in the saved map, it still keeps them in the trim table but it modifies the motors fuel curve while riding so you get the optimum AFR. You can also turn it to just use the base saved map, this can be made easier by wiring in a switch so you can select which mode on the fly.

      These are the two biggest misconception I have read on multiple forums regarding this setup.

      Some advantages if you like to completely control the tuning.
      1. You can program AFR by RPM, throttle opening and even individual gears. For some this is overwhelming. You can opt to just run the base settings that DynoJet sends it with, this is designed for a leaner cruising throttle for good economy and optimum power AFR for larger throttle openings and acceleration.

      2. From feedback from users of other tuning modules the PCV is superior when it comes to resisting environmental issues, waterproof and virtually indestructible as well as a proven track record of reliability are strong selling points.

      Disadvantages.
      1. More difficult to install, requires a laptop or computer to setup.

      2. The Auto Tune is not a custom fit option, it is not difficult but the O2 sensors do not fit the Raider and require exhaust modification. this is probably the biggest single issue with this system on several different kinds of motorcycles. If you have 18mm O2 sensors this is a non-issue.

      This is not a sales pitch, just clearing up some issues so people can make a hopefully educated decision.

      Pretty much spot on.  You get Capt Zoom's seal of approval.  This should be sticky'd.  Also for those going with the autotune, I've writting a nice little how to for using it.
      Kick Logic To The Curb!

      Holmes

      • Road Star
      • **
      • Join Date: Nov 2011
      • Posts: 122
      • Referrals: 1
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #8 on: Jun 20, 2012, 09:29:41 pm »
      i got the auto tune and hope to get it on the bike soon. i am interested in setting it up with the switch. the reason for not having it on now is cause i have not read up on how the programing works lol. but i do have the exhaust drilled and taped for the o2 sensor.
               

      WilCon

      • Search police and general nuisance.
      • Raider
      • *****
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • Join Date: Jan 2009
      • Posts: 3417
      • Referrals: 6
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #9 on: Jun 21, 2012, 07:24:15 am »
      The installation is really straightforward and simple. The auto Tune comes pre-setup with a good workable AFR for optimal efficiency and top end.
      The above post is strictly the opinion of the poster, disregard as necessary.

      If the above post is in RED then it was a moderator talking, you should pay attention.

      WilCon

      • Search police and general nuisance.
      • Raider
      • *****
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • Join Date: Jan 2009
      • Posts: 3417
      • Referrals: 6
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #10 on: Jun 21, 2012, 08:02:38 am »
      One other item that I added to the original post is about multiple cylinder tuning and reversion.
      The above post is strictly the opinion of the poster, disregard as necessary.

      If the above post is in RED then it was a moderator talking, you should pay attention.

      pjcria

      • Rom 6:23 <><
      • Road Star
      • **
      • Join Date: May 2010
      • Posts: 126
      • Referrals: 0
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #11 on: Jun 24, 2012, 09:44:06 pm »
      Went to the J&P Cycles rally on Saturday (I live about 50 min. away) and talked to the rep. at the Power Commander tent. Here are a few items I learned that I haven't heard anywhere on the forum before.
      1) OEM O2 sensors are very narrow band like about 13 to 13.5
      2) The O2 sensor is only on the bike to pass emissions regulations. These regulations are only for idle and high idle. High idle is when you are maintaining highway speed.
      3) Because of this going to after market pipes the stock system can only adjust your fuel at idle and cruising speed. Other wise it will be running lean as you get on it as the sensor can't read very far off optimum.
      4) You can set the system up to not tune during the 0 throttle position and deceleration, this should get rid of the problems when air is coming back up the exhaust and fooling the system.

      Hope this helps some people out.
      I think I'll give the Autotune a try if I can fine a used one cheap other wise it will be a while until I can save up the pennies.

      bluecat77

      • SEA-ROAR
      • Road Star
      • **
      • *
      • *
      • Join Date: Jul 2009
      • Posts: 136
      • Referrals: 1
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #12 on: Jun 24, 2012, 10:13:07 pm »
      Thanks for the input , I've just got my Auto tune about 4 days ago , and I love it so far . The throttle response feels a little sharper and the bike seems to be running a little cooler there is a pop now and then not as loud but not often . Before I use a Dobeck TFI , I running stock air with V&H 2-1 exhaust .  Theres not a place here locally I can get dyno test to see the difference . Basically what made my decision on Auto tune no access to a dyno , not computer savvy .

      Scoob

      • 2012 ROM Winner
      • Raider
      • *
      • *
      • *
      • Join Date: Jan 2010
      • Posts: 4304
      • Referrals: 1
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #13 on: Jun 25, 2012, 04:58:12 am »
      4) You can set the system up to not tune during the 0 throttle position and deceleration, this should get rid of the problems when air is coming back up the exhaust and fooling the system.
      I dont suppose they told you how to set it up this way? I would be interested in knowing :D

      Capt_Zoom

      • Raider
      • *****
      • Join Date: Mar 2009
      • Posts: 9698
      • Referrals: 1
      Re: Power Commander and Auto Tune Clearing up misinformation.
      « Reply #14 on: Jun 25, 2012, 09:52:16 am »
      4) You can set the system up to not tune during the 0 throttle position and deceleration, this should get rid of the problems when air is coming back up the exhaust and fooling the system.
      I dont suppose they told you how to set it up this way? I would be interested in knowing :D

      Stick a zero in the trim table in the cells you want to do this to.  Basically it deactivates the autotune for that cell and it will run the AFR from the AFR table.

      I also suggest sticking zeros in the trim table into all cells where the raider is incapable of running (below idle and above the rev limiter).  Dynojet told me to do this simply as a safeguard   
      Kick Logic To The Curb!