Author Topic: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro  (Read 6853 times)

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PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
« on: Jun 24, 2013, 05:35:51 pm »
I was reading another thread concerning the PCV Auto Tune trimming and was very confused and commented so.  A comment was then made that the PCV was  technologically the best option.  I didn't want to hijack the thread so started this one and based on my own experience with both devices, the PCV and the Cobra Power Pro I have to disagree with that statement.  My bike was built, a Power Pro installed, it was dyno'd and the numbers were fantastic right down to the AFR.  No tweaking or tinkering needed, it worked as advertised.  You can't do that with a PCV, it must be dyno'd to ensure a proper map and AFR and even then the map can be fine tuned with the Auto Tuner. Make a change and the Power Pro changes accordingly, the PCV will need a new map.  My only issue with the Power Pro was the radical popping that many love but for me it was too much.  For that reason and that reason only I bought a PCV, had it dyno'd by a very reliable certified dyno tech.  The bike ran great even though I lost HP and TQ vs the Power Pro.  The numbers with the Power Pro are 104 HP, 127 TQ, with the PCV are 100 HP, 120 TQ.  Both dyno's were done on different machines and they were both the older machines.  To eliminate any concerns that the temperature and humidity could have been the difference because higher temp and humidity can lower the numbers, I will say that the PCV was dyno'd in better conditions, much lower heat and humidity.  The numbers in themselves were not a deciding factor for me, what is, was the MPG.  With the Power Pro I am getting a steady 40 MPG, with the PCV I was getting 34 to 36 MPG.  The way I see it the Power Pro is a combination of the PCV, which installs the proper map, without the need for a dyno, and the Auto Tuner, which continually fine tunes the map, combined into a single device.  How that doesn't equate to being technologically the best option is beyond me.  JMHO.

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    Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
    « Reply #1 on: Jun 24, 2013, 06:17:01 pm »
    I hear what you're saying Bill L and I can't say that I don't think that the Power pro is innovative.  As I've mentioned in numerous threads the problem with the unit is 2 fold:  QC issues, lack of user control really hurts it from a technological standpoint.

    Further, I don't know your dyno tuner that worked on your PCV map but I find it hard to believe that you, with the 120 kit and all you've done to your awesome bike are getting lower numbers than 113 bikes with BAK and the vh2-1 and that your mileage was that low.  To me that says the guy didn't make you a great map.  Most of the folks I know with the 113, BAK, PCV, and VH2-1 are getting 102hp or so along with 120 torque and getting low 40s for mileage.  I'm getting 97-99HP, 120Torque with the PCV LAC pipes, 113 jugs, and BAK.  Something doesn't add up.  Not saying that you're reporting this inaccurately or anything like that either.  I just have a feeling that you can get more out of your bike with the PCV, when other's with similar setups to your 120 kit are getting 104-106HP with the very PCV you discount.

    For many of us the Power Pro represents a magic box, with questionable QC, coming from a line of dobeck product with a poor reputation, and a reminder of everything we wanted to forget about early 80's bikes and their own flawed magic box ecu's rather than traditional points and mechanical advance systems which worked well. Take a look at you're own remarks about the popping...its undesirable to you but because of the power pro's inflexibility you're unable to change anything to resolve it....maybe you can change something else on the bike like baffles or something.  So you're left trying the o2 eliminator made for the PCV.  If cobra really wanted to do right by their customers they'd offer some interface other than that idle pot.  In todays world we should be seeing at least a laptop interface.  Hopefully in the next version they'll make a smartphone interface...dynojet is.

    Where the technology difference comes in is that the PCV is able to be manipulated for all of the following using the PCV alone:
    -RPM x throttle position
         -for one or both cylinders
         -for every gear
         - for multiple maps for nitros and other applications
    -Add-ons include:
         -Quick shift kit
         - ignition module
         - LCD display (shows what's actually happening)
         -Autotune - offering the ability to create your own maps (albiet a rather technical endeavour).


    Technology is really in the eye of the beholder.
    -For those wanting the most options and flexibility the PCV and its add-on's win hands down.

    -For those wanting a plug and forget item and don't want to bother taking 30 seconds to load a premade map downloaded of the internet, tinker making their own map, or bringing to a dyno shop.

    Its there if people want it so be it.

    I know some people think I'm some kind of PCV nut but the reality is I'm just a guy who wants his bike to run right and sound right every time I start it up.  I don't want to be stranded with a failed unit or a unit I can't adjust, especially if I have the know-how to make adjustments.  The PCV fits my needs.  Whether it fits another rider's isn't a question I can answer.  I can only relay what is fact and what I've learned through using the autotune...which I'm the first to admit was a total headache and I my own first attempts at maps weren't great.  To save others the same headaches I wrote the how-to.  Use it or don't...doesn't matter to me.
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    Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
    « Reply #2 on: Jun 24, 2013, 06:52:39 pm »
    I hear what you're saying Bill L and I can't say that I don't think that the Power pro is innovative.  As I've mentioned in numerous threads the problem with the unit is 2 fold:  QC issues, lack of user control really hurts it from a technological standpoint.

    Further, I don't know your dyno tuner that worked on your PCV map but I find it hard to believe that you, with the 120 kit and all you've done to your awesome bike are getting lower numbers than 113 bikes with BAK and the vh2-1 and that your mileage was that low.  To me that says the guy didn't make you a great map.  Most of the folks I know with the 113, BAK, PCV, and VH2-1 are getting 102hp or so along with 120 torque and getting low 40s for mileage.  I'm getting 97-99HP, 120Torque with the PCV LAC pipes, 113 jugs, and BAK.  Something doesn't add up.  Not saying that you're reporting this inaccurately or anything like that either.  I just have a feeling that you can get more out of your bike with the PCV, when other's with similar setups to your 120 kit are getting 104-106HP with the very PCV you discount.

    For many of us the Power Pro represents a magic box, with questionable QC, coming from a line of dobeck product with a poor reputation, and a reminder of everything we wanted to forget about early 80's bikes and their own flawed magic box ecu's rather than traditional points and mechanical advance systems which worked well. Take a look at you're own remarks about the popping...its undesirable to you but because of the power pro's inflexibility you're unable to change anything to resolve it....maybe you can change something else on the bike like baffles or something.  So you're left trying the o2 eliminator made for the PCV.  If cobra really wanted to do right by their customers they'd offer some interface other than that idle pot.  In todays world we should be seeing at least a laptop interface.  Hopefully in the next version they'll make a smartphone interface...dynojet is.

    Where the technology difference comes in is that the PCV is able to be manipulated for all of the following using the PCV alone:
    -RPM x throttle position
         -for one or both cylinders
         -for every gear
         - for multiple maps for nitros and other applications
    -Add-ons include:
         -Quick shift kit
         - ignition module
         - LCD display (shows what's actually happening)
         -Autotune - offering the ability to create your own maps (albiet a rather technical endeavour).


    Technology is really in the eye of the beholder.
    -For those wanting the most options and flexibility the PCV and its add-on's win hands down.

    -For those wanting a plug and forget item and don't want to bother taking 30 seconds to load a premade map downloaded of the internet, tinker making their own map, or bringing to a dyno shop.

    Its there if people want it so be it.

    I know some people think I'm some kind of PCV nut but the reality is I'm just a guy who wants his bike to run right and sound right every time I start it up.  I don't want to be stranded with a failed unit or a unit I can't adjust, especially if I have the know-how to make adjustments.  The PCV fits my needs.  Whether it fits another rider's isn't a question I can answer.  I can only relay what is fact and what I've learned through using the autotune...which I'm the first to admit was a total headache and I my own first attempts at maps weren't great.  To save others the same headaches I wrote the how-to.  Use it or don't...doesn't matter to me.

    Where are these guys you talk about getting 102 HP and 120 TQ with the 113 and my same set-up?  I can't find any of them in the dyno sheets listed here.  As for the MPG, I do have larger jugs, it's going to use more gas.  I never expected to be getting 45 MPG or higher like some here get but I am getting better then some report with the 113 and using the PCV but maintain that other then the mileage their bikes are running great.  Of course that could be totally due to the right wrist...  :o 

    As far as the dyno tech that made my map I trust him completely, he is the same guy that made Ares X's map and you won't hear any complaints from Dan on that map.  He also made Deyv's map and I don't hear any complaints from him either.  For that matter I didn't have any complaints on my map, the bike ran great.  The numbers weren't as high but it still ran great.  If he didn't make me a great map as you suggest would the bike have been running great?  I think not, in your own words if you have a bad map your bike will run like crap.  That was not the case at all.

    On the QC issue, I only know of 2 people that have had an issue with the Power Pro and that issue was caused by themselves by installing it against the installation instructions.  You have stated that 20 or more people have told you about issues with the Power Pro.  Are they not members here?  Do they all ride Raiders?  I would think that if they are members they would state those issues for all to see and benefit from but I can't find any other then the two I stated.  Those two got the unit wet and it shorted out on them but other then that I have seen no other issues posted.  Even in those two threads others have stated that with the unit installed as recommended they have had zero issues even riding in very heavy rain fall.

    When you speak of technologically advanced you speak of user interface and how you yourself can make it and get the desired results, when I speak of it I speak of simplicity in that I don't have to interface to get the desired results.  It's all a matter of perspective.  I think both units are fantastic and offer each user exactly what they want.

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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #3 on: Jun 24, 2013, 08:21:40 pm »
      I hear what you're saying Bill L and I can't say that I don't think that the Power pro is innovative.  As I've mentioned in numerous threads the problem with the unit is 2 fold:  QC issues, lack of user control really hurts it from a technological standpoint.

      Further, I don't know your dyno tuner that worked on your PCV map but I find it hard to believe that you, with the 120 kit and all you've done to your awesome bike are getting lower numbers than 113 bikes with BAK and the vh2-1 and that your mileage was that low.  To me that says the guy didn't make you a great map.  Most of the folks I know with the 113, BAK, PCV, and VH2-1 are getting 102hp or so along with 120 torque and getting low 40s for mileage.  I'm getting 97-99HP, 120Torque with the PCV LAC pipes, 113 jugs, and BAK.  Something doesn't add up.  Not saying that you're reporting this inaccurately or anything like that either.  I just have a feeling that you can get more out of your bike with the PCV, when other's with similar setups to your 120 kit are getting 104-106HP with the very PCV you discount.

      For many of us the Power Pro represents a magic box, with questionable QC, coming from a line of dobeck product with a poor reputation, and a reminder of everything we wanted to forget about early 80's bikes and their own flawed magic box ecu's rather than traditional points and mechanical advance systems which worked well. Take a look at you're own remarks about the popping...its undesirable to you but because of the power pro's inflexibility you're unable to change anything to resolve it....maybe you can change something else on the bike like baffles or something.  So you're left trying the o2 eliminator made for the PCV.  If cobra really wanted to do right by their customers they'd offer some interface other than that idle pot.  In todays world we should be seeing at least a laptop interface.  Hopefully in the next version they'll make a smartphone interface...dynojet is.

      Where the technology difference comes in is that the PCV is able to be manipulated for all of the following using the PCV alone:
      -RPM x throttle position
           -for one or both cylinders
           -for every gear
           - for multiple maps for nitros and other applications
      -Add-ons include:
           -Quick shift kit
           - ignition module
           - LCD display (shows what's actually happening)
           -Autotune - offering the ability to create your own maps (albiet a rather technical endeavour).


      Technology is really in the eye of the beholder.
      -For those wanting the most options and flexibility the PCV and its add-on's win hands down.

      -For those wanting a plug and forget item and don't want to bother taking 30 seconds to load a premade map downloaded of the internet, tinker making their own map, or bringing to a dyno shop.

      Its there if people want it so be it.

      I know some people think I'm some kind of PCV nut but the reality is I'm just a guy who wants his bike to run right and sound right every time I start it up.  I don't want to be stranded with a failed unit or a unit I can't adjust, especially if I have the know-how to make adjustments.  The PCV fits my needs.  Whether it fits another rider's isn't a question I can answer.  I can only relay what is fact and what I've learned through using the autotune...which I'm the first to admit was a total headache and I my own first attempts at maps weren't great.  To save others the same headaches I wrote the how-to.  Use it or don't...doesn't matter to me.

      Where are these guys you talk about getting 102 HP and 120 TQ with the 113 and my same set-up?  I can't find any of them in the dyno sheets listed here.  As for the MPG, I do have larger jugs, it's going to use more gas.  I never expected to be getting 45 MPG or higher like some here get but I am getting better then some report with the 113 and using the PCV but maintain that other then the mileage their bikes are running great.  Of course that could be totally due to the right wrist...  :o 

      As far as the dyno tech that made my map I trust him completely, he is the same guy that made Ares X's map and you won't hear any complaints from Dan on that map.  He also made Deyv's map and I don't hear any complaints from him either.  For that matter I didn't have any complaints on my map, the bike ran great.  The numbers weren't as high but it still ran great.  If he didn't make me a great map as you suggest would the bike have been running great?  I think not, in your own words if you have a bad map your bike will run like crap.  That was not the case at all.

      On the QC issue, I only know of 2 people that have had an issue with the Power Pro and that issue was caused by themselves by installing it against the installation instructions.  You have stated that 20 or more people have told you about issues with the Power Pro.  Are they not members here?  Do they all ride Raiders?  I would think that if they are members they would state those issues for all to see and benefit from but I can't find any other then the two I stated.  Those two got the unit wet and it shorted out on them but other then that I have seen no other issues posted.  Even in those two threads others have stated that with the unit installed as recommended they have had zero issues even riding in very heavy rain fall.

      When you speak of technologically advanced you speak of user interface and how you yourself can make it and get the desired results, when I speak of it I speak of simplicity in that I don't have to interface to get the desired results.  It's all a matter of perspective.  I think both units are fantastic and offer each user exactly what they want.

      Power pro for me is just the ticket, I have no desire to go through the hassle of any other controller, but mine is stock except for the exhaust. I do know the bike had more snap after the power pro and last summer on my way to WARR 2012 I got 48 MPG when I checked it in Carson City.  ;D
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      Capt_Zoom

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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #4 on: Jun 24, 2013, 10:30:49 pm »
      Bill,
      A dyno tech could make great maps and still have a lemon once and a while.  it just doesn't add up.  Also My apologies about the mileage your getting.  That might be closer to what's expected....my mistake.  Odd though since IIRC Paladin was near 40mpg with his supercharged raider.  PM florida liner and ask him what he's getting for mileage.

      If you look through the dyno sheets at http://www.raiderperformance.com/ you'll likely see the dyno's of 113's running BAK and VH2-1 getting 102-104HP.  Most of the time they don't refer to conditions and rarely or never state the dyno settnigs.

      These are the guys who I've talked to about pro problems whose messages I didn't delete.  (i hope they don't mind me posting their names...if so PM me and i'll remove them)
      Metric
      L.T.T.
      Jughead
      There were probably another 6-8 Raiders here from this site and Yamahamotorcycleforum who's messages I don't have any more.


      I've also talked to several guys in Minnesota on other metric applications, know 2 in person one was a friend of a friend.
      Talked to another 4 here in louisiana from November till now who were having massive popping like Bill Describes...they report good power but are pissed that they can't get rid of the popping.  All had metrics.  1 stryker (failed...returned to Dennis kirk, 2 fury...one solved by switching pipes lost $300 in the deal, the other's failed and he returned to where he bought it...had it 10 days, and a 109 who had it conk out while riding...he had his bike towed back cause he didn't know what the hell happened.
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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #5 on: Jun 24, 2013, 11:01:41 pm »
      I do find it kinda strange Bill is getting 100hp. If i recall right the GhostR8r gets close to 100hp. But far as the power pro. I am happy with it. Granted i have poppin. But. I dont engine break. I squeeze every bit of gas mileage i can out of it. And it seems  better on the motor. To me. The thing that bought me with the power pro is. Even though it was a gamble on maybe getting a bad unit. Is i would not have to rely on a dyno or some clown that prob cares less about my bike. It changed the tone of my pipes from when i ran without a tuner that in itself was worth it to me. :raider:
      Some prefer medicine. I prefer my Raider.

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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #6 on: Jun 24, 2013, 11:17:17 pm »
      I do find it kinda strange Bill is getting 100hp. If i recall right the GhostR8r gets close to 100hp. But far as the power pro. I am happy with it. Granted i have poppin. But. I dont engine break. I squeeze every bit of gas mileage i can out of it. And it seems  better on the motor. To me. The thing that bought me with the power pro is. Even though it was a gamble on maybe getting a bad unit. Is i would not have to rely on a dyno or some clown that prob cares less about my bike. It changed the tone of my pipes from when i ran without a tuner that in itself was worth it to me. :raider:

      Definitely the thing I hate about dyno centers.  I'd wager that half don't give a crap unless they know the owner of the bike.  Even places with a good reputation all it takes is for there to be one new guy and suddenly they are churning out bad maps.  Maybe bad isn't the right word....Lazy tuning might be better.  They probably make them so the bike is going to be fine AFR wise but they aren't spending the time to get everything just right for max power and good mileage....the lazy one's that is.
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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #7 on: Jun 25, 2013, 01:49:10 am »
      Bill,
      A dyno tech could make great maps and still have a lemon once and a while.  it just doesn't add up.  Also My apologies about the mileage your getting.  That might be closer to what's expected....my mistake.  Odd though since IIRC Paladin was near 40mpg with his supercharged raider.  PM florida liner and ask him what he's getting for mileage.

      If you look through the dyno sheets at http://www.raiderperformance.com/ you'll likely see the dyno's of 113's running BAK and VH2-1 getting 102-104HP.  Most of the time they don't refer to conditions and rarely or never state the dyno settnigs.

      These are the guys who I've talked to about pro problems whose messages I didn't delete.  (i hope they don't mind me posting their names...if so PM me and i'll remove them)
      Metric
      L.T.T.
      Jughead
      There were probably another 6-8 Raiders here from this site and Yamahamotorcycleforum who's messages I don't have any more.


      I've also talked to several guys in Minnesota on other metric applications, know 2 in person one was a friend of a friend.
      Talked to another 4 here in louisiana from November till now who were having massive popping like Bill Describes...they report good power but are pissed that they can't get rid of the popping.  All had metrics.  1 stryker (failed...returned to Dennis kirk, 2 fury...one solved by switching pipes lost $300 in the deal, the other's failed and he returned to where he bought it...had it 10 days, and a 109 who had it conk out while riding...he had his bike towed back cause he didn't know what the hell happened.

      I am getting 40 MPG with the Power Pro and that is better then I had hoped for so I am very happy with that.  The popping problem is a thing of the past.  I am thinking it may have been the Gen-2 unit that was the problem with my build.  I am now running a Gen-1 and the popping is all but totally gone, only popping when I really get on it and then come off the throttle hard.  The PCV removed a little over half the popping that I was getting with the Gen-2 and I could have lived with that if it had not been for what I considered a drastic drop in mileage.  I still have my PCV and the Auto Tune and I am not going to get rid of them.  I want to learn more about them both and at some point reinstall and tinker with it and see if I can't get the type of performance that you discuss.  I just wish there was someone here in Yuma that has knowledge like you but that ain't happening and trying to do it on my own even with help from this forum is not the ideal way to learn in my book.

      I went to www.raiderperformance.com and only saw a couple of bikes with my set up that got over 100 HP and 120 TQ, most of them had high 80's to mid 90's HP and 105 to 115 TQ.  On this sight my dyno numbers from Tejas of 104 HP and 127 TQ are the second highest numbers posted.

      On the mishaps of the Power Pro I will take your word regarding the people that have spoken too you and thanks for the info.  But I would have to see a much wider base then those to sway me from the Power Pro because I have seen just here at this site way more change from the PCV to the Power Pro and be totally pleased with it's performance.  Why did they switch?  Not because the PCV is a bad unit but because of the simplicity of the plug and play capabilities of the Power Pro.  I think even you will have to admit for the individual that does not have your knowledge base or the desire to tinker to get the best map they can out of the PCV that the Power Pro is the perfect solution.  Just because you don't have the user interface with the Power Pro that you do with the PCV does not mean it is not providing the best that the PCV with Auto Tune does.  As I see it the PCV in conjunction with the Auto Tune is doing the same thing the Power Pro is doing as a stand alone unit.

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      PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #8 on: Jun 25, 2013, 04:18:16 am »
      My head hurts!

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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #9 on: Jun 25, 2013, 08:58:55 am »
      Bill,
      A dyno tech could make great maps and still have a lemon once and a while.  it just doesn't add up.  Also My apologies about the mileage your getting.  That might be closer to what's expected....my mistake.  Odd though since IIRC Paladin was near 40mpg with his supercharged raider.  PM florida liner and ask him what he's getting for mileage.

      If you look through the dyno sheets at http://www.raiderperformance.com/ you'll likely see the dyno's of 113's running BAK and VH2-1 getting 102-104HP.  Most of the time they don't refer to conditions and rarely or never state the dyno settnigs.

      These are the guys who I've talked to about pro problems whose messages I didn't delete.  (i hope they don't mind me posting their names...if so PM me and i'll remove them)
      Metric
      L.T.T.
      Jughead
      There were probably another 6-8 Raiders here from this site and Yamahamotorcycleforum who's messages I don't have any more.


      I've also talked to several guys in Minnesota on other metric applications, know 2 in person one was a friend of a friend.
      Talked to another 4 here in louisiana from November till now who were having massive popping like Bill Describes...they report good power but are pissed that they can't get rid of the popping.  All had metrics.  1 stryker (failed...returned to Dennis kirk, 2 fury...one solved by switching pipes lost $300 in the deal, the other's failed and he returned to where he bought it...had it 10 days, and a 109 who had it conk out while riding...he had his bike towed back cause he didn't know what the hell happened.

      I am getting 40 MPG with the Power Pro and that is better then I had hoped for so I am very happy with that.  The popping problem is a thing of the past.  I am thinking it may have been the Gen-2 unit that was the problem with my build.  I am now running a Gen-1 and the popping is all but totally gone, only popping when I really get on it and then come off the throttle hard.  The PCV removed a little over half the popping that I was getting with the Gen-2 and I could have lived with that if it had not been for what I considered a drastic drop in mileage.  I still have my PCV and the Auto Tune and I am not going to get rid of them.  I want to learn more about them both and at some point reinstall and tinker with it and see if I can't get the type of performance that you discuss.  I just wish there was someone here in Yuma that has knowledge like you but that ain't happening and trying to do it on my own even with help from this forum is not the ideal way to learn in my book.

      I went to www.raiderperformance.com and only saw a couple of bikes with my set up that got over 100 HP and 120 TQ, most of them had high 80's to mid 90's HP and 105 to 115 TQ.  On this sight my dyno numbers from Tejas of 104 HP and 127 TQ are the second highest numbers posted.

      On the mishaps of the Power Pro I will take your word regarding the people that have spoken too you and thanks for the info.  But I would have to see a much wider base then those to sway me from the Power Pro because I have seen just here at this site way more change from the PCV to the Power Pro and be totally pleased with it's performance.  Why did they switch?  Not because the PCV is a bad unit but because of the simplicity of the plug and play capabilities of the Power Pro.  I think even you will have to admit for the individual that does not have your knowledge base or the desire to tinker to get the best map they can out of the PCV that the Power Pro is the perfect solution.  Just because you don't have the user interface with the Power Pro that you do with the PCV does not mean it is not providing the best that the PCV with Auto Tune does.  As I see it the PCV in conjunction with the Auto Tune is doing the same thing the Power Pro is doing as a stand alone unit.

      i think a lot of people switch hoping it'll get rid of their popping.  Whether this is because they didn't have the autotune or the ability to tinker is another question.  People in general also tend to flock to the newest thing.  For those folks the power pro might be the answer.  For their sake I hope so.  I hate it when I buy a part, then it doesn't work, then I gotta rebuy a part that I already had or was stock to begin with.  All i want is for folks to find a solution...whatever it is that is best for them.  Personally, with the sheer amount of maps on this site I feel that the autotune is overrated unless you're someone who is looking to tinker and play with cell values to get rid of their popping or for those looking to make their own maps.
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      Brianheartline

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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #10 on: Jun 25, 2013, 09:28:46 am »
      My head hurts!

       :agree: Glad I bought the Cobra Power Pro

      Wassup77

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      PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #11 on: Jun 25, 2013, 09:39:54 am »
      I don't like the idea of using a map that someone else with a similar setup has, and here is why:  you can go to your nearest Yamaha dealer, pick up two raiders, exactly the same down to the paint, take them to the drag strip and assuming equally skilled riders, one of those bikes will be faster than the other.  Take both bikes to a dyno shop, have the same tech dyno both bikes on the same dyno in the same conditions, one if those bikes is going to come up with better numbers than the other.  That's because no matter how good the build quality there will be variances in the two machines.  Ones computer may run it a minute bit richer or leaner, ones rings may seal off just a little tighter, ones injectors may be slightly larger, it's just not possible to perfectly duplicate every little part of a mass produced machine and they all be the exact same specs.  That's why you have tolerances in an engine, and not just ok this should be X value.  Because of this, I believe that even if someone  else has the same exact setup as you and they pay the money to have there's dynoed and a map built that is perfect for theirs, while it might get close, I don't believe it will be perfect for yours.  The only way IMO to get a map tweeked to its best for a bike is to have it dynoed, or gave the skill to tune with the auto tune, which I think most of us don't. And honestly I'm probably gonna go with the power pro for that very reason, I don't have a dyno shop close enough to have them tweak mine, and don't wanna have to pay to have it done every time I change my setup.
      « Last Edit: Jun 25, 2013, 09:41:52 am by Wassup77 »

      Brianheartline

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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #12 on: Jun 25, 2013, 09:40:11 am »
      Bill,
      A dyno tech could make great maps and still have a lemon once and a while.  it just doesn't add up.  Also My apologies about the mileage your getting.  That might be closer to what's expected....my mistake.  Odd though since IIRC Paladin was near 40mpg with his supercharged raider.  PM florida liner and ask him what he's getting for mileage.

      If you look through the dyno sheets at http://www.raiderperformance.com/ you'll likely see the dyno's of 113's running BAK and VH2-1 getting 102-104HP.  Most of the time they don't refer to conditions and rarely or never state the dyno settnigs.

      These are the guys who I've talked to about pro problems whose messages I didn't delete.  (i hope they don't mind me posting their names...if so PM me and i'll remove them)
      Metric
      L.T.T.
      Jughead
      There were probably another 6-8 Raiders here from this site and Yamahamotorcycleforum who's messages I don't have any more.


      I've also talked to several guys in Minnesota on other metric applications, know 2 in person one was a friend of a friend.
      Talked to another 4 here in louisiana from November till now who were having massive popping like Bill Describes...they report good power but are pissed that they can't get rid of the popping.  All had metrics.  1 stryker (failed...returned to Dennis kirk, 2 fury...one solved by switching pipes lost $300 in the deal, the other's failed and he returned to where he bought it...had it 10 days, and a 109 who had it conk out while riding...he had his bike towed back cause he didn't know what the hell happened.

      I am getting 40 MPG with the Power Pro and that is better then I had hoped for so I am very happy with that.  The popping problem is a thing of the past.  I am thinking it may have been the Gen-2 unit that was the problem with my build.  I am now running a Gen-1 and the popping is all but totally gone, only popping when I really get on it and then come off the throttle hard.  The PCV removed a little over half the popping that I was getting with the Gen-2 and I could have lived with that if it had not been for what I considered a drastic drop in mileage.  I still have my PCV and the Auto Tune and I am not going to get rid of them.  I want to learn more about them both and at some point reinstall and tinker with it and see if I can't get the type of performance that you discuss.  I just wish there was someone here in Yuma that has knowledge like you but that ain't happening and trying to do it on my own even with help from this forum is not the ideal way to learn in my book.

      I went to www.raiderperformance.com and only saw a couple of bikes with my set up that got over 100 HP and 120 TQ, most of them had high 80's to mid 90's HP and 105 to 115 TQ.  On this sight my dyno numbers from Tejas of 104 HP and 127 TQ are the second highest numbers posted.

      On the mishaps of the Power Pro I will take your word regarding the people that have spoken too you and thanks for the info.  But I would have to see a much wider base then those to sway me from the Power Pro because I have seen just here at this site way more change from the PCV to the Power Pro and be totally pleased with it's performance.  Why did they switch?  Not because the PCV is a bad unit but because of the simplicity of the plug and play capabilities of the Power Pro.  I think even you will have to admit for the individual that does not have your knowledge base or the desire to tinker to get the best map they can out of the PCV that the Power Pro is the perfect solution.  Just because you don't have the user interface with the Power Pro that you do with the PCV does not mean it is not providing the best that the PCV with Auto Tune does.  As I see it the PCV in conjunction with the Auto Tune is doing the same thing the Power Pro is doing as a stand alone unit.

      Bill L. how did you find out the Gen1 or Gen2? I looked through my instructions and they don't say. I would like to know if I have a Gen1 or Gen2.

      Capt_Zoom

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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #13 on: Jun 25, 2013, 09:51:35 am »
      I don't like the idea of using a map that someone else with a similar setup has, and here is why:  you can go to your nearest Yamaha dealer, pick up two raiders, exactly the same down to the paint, take them to the drag strip and assuming equally skilled riders, one of those bikes will be faster than the other.  Take both bikes to a dyno shop, have the same tech dyno both bikes on the same dyno in the same conditions, one if those bikes is going to come up with better numbers than the other.  That's because no matter how good the build quality there will be variances in the two machines.  Ones computer may run it a minute bit richer or leaner, ones rings may seal off just a little tighter, ones injectors may be slightly larger, it's just not possible to perfectly duplicate every little part of a mass produced machine and they all be the exact same specs.  That's why you have tolerances in an engine, and not just ok this should be X value.  Because of this, I believe that even if someone  else has the same exact setup as you and they pay the money to have there's dynoed and a map built that is perfect for theirs, while it might get close, I don't believe it will be perfect for yours.  The only way IMO to get a map tweeked to its best for a bike is to have it dynoed, or gave the skill to tune with the auto tune, which I think most of us don't. And honestly I'm probably gonna go with the power pro for that very reason, I don't have a dyno shop close enough to have them tweak mine, and don't wanna have to pay to have it done every time I change my setup.

      Totally agree about the individual differences thing.  Where i'm coming from is that most people are scrounging just to get money for pipes, BAK and fuel management.  For those...using another's map is nearly always good enough to give good (not necessarily perfect) performance that is safe for your motor. 

      Personally, I feel every bike should be dyno'd...at minimum just to see that your AFR is proper PCV, power pro whatever.  when you're making massive mods the $30 security just makes sense to me.
      « Last Edit: Jun 25, 2013, 09:56:47 am by Capt_Zoom »
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      Sweet Tooth

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      Re: PCV Auto Tune and Cobra Power Pro
      « Reply #14 on: Jun 25, 2013, 09:52:47 am »
      Theirs no such thing as (gen 1 and gen 2). Its just something that someone decidided to come up with on this site so everyone knows what unit their talking about. But i think that the gen 2 has a dial you can adjust for the idle. And i think the wires have a different colored sticker around them. Dont quote me on that though i havent looked yet.
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